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  #11  
Unread 08-14-2019, 11:07 PM
John Isbell John Isbell is offline
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Hi Julie,

A fascinating post! Thank you. This is typically the poem that makes my students love Apollinaire. I like the Shattuck, but the Wilbur is astonishing. I'll try to come back and compare more.

Cheers,
John
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  #12  
Unread 08-14-2019, 11:18 PM
Julie Steiner Julie Steiner is offline
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There are many more. I'll post some tomorrow. Meanwhile, here's a photo (found online, not mine), which changed the way I had been picturing the lovers holding hands while facing each other.



I was hoping to go under it on a Seine boat tour, during the only time I'll probably be in Paris in my lifetime, but our boat just went from the Eiffel Tour and back, after circling the two Îles, and this bridge was too far west. Here it is on a map of Paris:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pont_M...s-Mirabeau.png

Last edited by Julie Steiner; 08-15-2019 at 12:11 AM. Reason: Better photo
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  #13  
Unread 08-14-2019, 11:54 PM
John Isbell John Isbell is offline
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Yes, my students are surprised when I tell them it's a modern, metal bridge. We see the free A.S. Kline Apollinaire; not the best version, but free and decently sizeable.

Cheers,
John
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  #14  
Unread 08-15-2019, 12:15 AM
Julie Steiner Julie Steiner is offline
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Found it!

The Mirabeau Bridge

Under the Mirabeau flows the Seine
     And our amours
          Shall I remember it again
Joy always followed after Pain

          Comes the night sounds the hour
          The days go by I endure

Hand in hand rest face to face
          While underneath
     The bridge of our arms there races
So weary a wave of eternal gazes

          Comes the night sounds the hour
          The days go by I endure

Love vanishes like the water’s flow
          Love vanishes
     How life is slow
And how Hope lives blow by blow

          Comes the night sounds the hour
          The days go by I endure

Let the hour pass the day the same
          Time past returns
     Nor love again
Under the Mirabeau flows the Seine

          Comes the night sounds the hour
          The days go by I endure

--Translated by A.S. Kline
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  #15  
Unread 08-15-2019, 10:52 AM
John Isbell John Isbell is offline
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My only quibble with the Wilbur is bells end the day. I think I’d prefer bells mark the day - the French doesn’t specify an hour. I like to the sea, which seems to me true to the French. Will look to note some quibbles with other versions.

Cheers,
John
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  #16  
Unread 08-15-2019, 10:56 AM
John Isbell John Isbell is offline
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I like Merwin, but his rhyming disappoints me here, and I don’t much like his chorus. I like his simple respect for the French.

Cheers,
John
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  #17  
Unread 08-15-2019, 11:01 AM
John Isbell John Isbell is offline
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I don’t feel the need for Kirkup’s or Seidel’s versions. They’re not Apollinaire, and yet they’re not independent the way West Side Story or Clueless is. Do they fill a need in civilization? I don’t see it.

Cheers,
John

Also: haiku. Really.
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  #18  
Unread 08-15-2019, 11:06 AM
John Isbell John Isbell is offline
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Not a big fan of Bernstein’s rhyming, or Dean’s archaism. So there’s that. Sorry, I’m saving time by pointing to possible failures not successes in these versions. But to supersede the Wilbur they need I think to avoid those.

Cheers,
John
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  #19  
Unread 08-15-2019, 11:09 AM
John Isbell John Isbell is offline
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Kennedy is a bit flash. The French isn’t really. I think he should render what’s on the page.

Cheers,
John
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  #20  
Unread 08-15-2019, 03:11 PM
Julie Steiner Julie Steiner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Isbell View Post
My only quibble with the Wilbur is bells end the day. I think I’d prefer bells mark the day - the French doesn’t specify an hour.
But it actually does specify an hour--6 pm. Or 18:00.

Church bells used to ring at 6am, noon, and 6pm, signaling Catholics to stop what they were doing and pray the Angelus. The final Angelus bell traditionally marked the end of a day's work; in other words, the "day" ended at 6pm, whether or not the sun was actually setting then, as it seems to be in Apollinaire's poem.

CORRECTION! French Wikipedia says:

Quote:
Cette prière est récitée dans l'Église latine trois fois par jour, à six heures, à midi et à dix-huit heures, mais cet horaire peut varier selon le travail et les régions. Ainsi, en France, les cloches sonnent généralement à sept heures, midi et dix-neuf heures. En Champagne, l'angélus sonne une quatrième fois à quatorze heures, la reprise du travail. À ces heures, une « cloche de l'angélus » est sonnée — l'angélus se sonne par trois séries de trois tintements suivis d'une « pleine volée » ou d'un cantique. Les tintements correspondent au début du versicule, du répons et de l’Ave.

En Irlande, la chaîne de télévision publique RTE 1 diffuse la cloche de l'angélus tous les jours à 18 heures, juste avant le journal télévisé du soir.
My quick translation:

Quote:
This prayer is recited in the Latin Church three times a day, at 6am, at noon, and at 6pm, but this schedule may vary according to the workday and the region. Thus, in France, the bells sound generally at 7am, noon, and 7pm. In Champagne, the Angelus sounds a fourth time at 2pm, the return to work. At these hours, an "Angelus bell" is sounded--the Angelus sounds in three sets of three peals followed by [either] a "full volley" [of multiple bells ringing at once, not necessarily in a pattern] or by [the tune of] a Gregorian chant. The [triple] peals correspond to the beginning of the verse, the response, and the Hail Mary.

In Ireland, the public television channel RTE 1 transmits the Angelus bell every day at 6pm, just before the evening news program.
So the following two paragraphs are at least partially inaccurate, if not flat-out wrong:


According to this page about time changes in Paris over the years, there were no Daylight Saving Time changes in Paris until 1916, which is after this poem was written. So the final 6pm sounding of the church bells for the Angelus would have corresponded with the end of the day, twice per year. One of these was in November, when a French poet's thoughts might turn melancholic. (Cf. Verlaine's moody Chanson d'automne, which also contains the phrase "Sonne l'heure").

Nowadays, there's an abrupt jump from a sunset time of about 6:30pm to about 5:30pm near the end of October, and a corresponding jump in the other direction near the end of March. So the sun never sets at 6pm in Paris anymore.


The Angelus is less widely observed (and thus less widely rung by church bells) than it once was, so it confuses the heck out of people who are accustomed to the usual chiming of the hour in an uninterrupted way, corresponding to number of hours on the clock. The Angelus pattern is three sets (sometimes with each set on a different bell, with a different pitch) of three peals, for a total of nine, with long pauses between each set. These nine peals are sometimes followed by a final peal, or by a more complex pattern of multiple bells. Here's a video of the noon Angelus sonnerie at the Cathedral of Notre Dame de Paris, plus some extra stuff before and after because it was a Marian feast day. (Many of the comments on the video are distressed that the extra stuff wasn't fancy enough for the occasion.)

In this video of the Angelus on a single church bell, there are seven peals for the hour, a long pause, the Angelus's three sets of three peals, a long pause, and then a great racket that goes on for some time.

I assume that in Paris, all of the various churches would be making a similar five-minute racket at the end of each day.

In Ireland, the 3+3+3 pattern is followed by nine peals in a row, for a total of 18 peals, in the midst of which even otherwise savvy Catholic tourists unfamiliar with local custom may shake their heads and say things like "It sounds like a kid is messing around with the bell rope" and "They need to fire their bell ringer. Clearly, he's drunk."

CAVEAT: And after all that blather, it's quite possible that "sonne l'heure" does not refer to the Angelus at all. I still need to check on some things. But I won't have time until after this weekend.

Here are the verse, response, and the Hail Mary (or "Ave") for each part of the Angelus:

Quote:
V. The Angel of the Lord declared unto Mary,
R. And she conceived of the Holy Spirit.

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

V. Behold the handmaid of the Lord.
R. Be it done unto me according to Your Word.

Hail Mary, etc...

V. And the Word was made flesh,
R. And dwelt among us.

Hail Mary, etc...

Last edited by Julie Steiner; 08-15-2019 at 06:24 PM. Reason: added videos; added correction and caveat
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