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  #1  
Unread 08-04-2019, 07:44 AM
Andrew Szilvasy Andrew Szilvasy is online now
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Default Two Mass Shootings in under 14 Hours

And this a week or so after the shooting at the garlic festival.

I mean, the most awful thing about these as that we Americans are becoming inured to them.
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Unread 08-04-2019, 08:57 AM
Jim Moonan Jim Moonan is offline
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Yes and no. It is, more or less, an election year. Gun control is a wedge issue -- with a double-edge. If Trump doesn't buckle on gun control he will see his voter block fray.

Get ready for another wretched week of wretched tweets and flame-fanning.

In one respect the ubiquitous presence of guns is symptomatic of a segment of our society whose mentality I cannot find the words to describe except to call it "Deplorable". Their minds would only be changed through epiphanic experience. They have their president to shield and preserve them and their vacuous intellects -- the price tag? Their vote.

But no... I do think this is one issue that Dems have the advantage. It will not take much to tip the election (assuming the Dems find a viable candidate and develop a strategy that camps out in the mid-west and effectively ostracizes Trump. Trump on the defensive -- What a beautiful sight that would be. To be without hope is to be helpless.

Still, the recent slaughters are demoralizing. Anger must erupt from it. A "Me Too" style resolve to act.
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Last edited by Jim Moonan; 08-04-2019 at 09:04 AM.
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Unread 08-04-2019, 09:14 AM
Max Goodman Max Goodman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Moonan View Post
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If Trump doesn't buckle on gun control he will see his voter block fray.
Conventional wisdom as I understand it says that the only way to keep his voter block together is to avoid buckling--on anything. Certainly that's the tactic he's used. [Or rather, he's successfully had it both ways by backing off when directly called on the vilest of his positions, then, when accused of backing off, doubling down on the original position.]

One would think that many of Trump's supporters would want to see something done about the epidemic of gun violence, but their own best interests (somewhat to their credit, if we assume that they know what is in their own interests) does not seem to be what drives them politically.

Is there evidence that Trump will lose support if he holds firm against gun regulation?
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Unread 08-04-2019, 09:58 AM
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Orwn Acra Orwn Acra is offline
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The United States is a joke.
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Unread 08-04-2019, 10:35 AM
Jim Moonan Jim Moonan is offline
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Walter, If Trump were defeated in 2020 would your view hold true?
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Max, There is a smallish percentage (3-5% I think) who, if Trump continues to support the criminally unconstitutional stance of the NRA, will waiver in their support.
If he buckles, even a little bit, even if he gives his famous lyin' lip service to those who want sensible background checks, disarming domestic violence offenders, the clinically mentally dangerous, etc. it would be enough to keep that small percentage in the fold. (He will nod and wink to his despicable core of voters with whom I believe he has established a kind of short-hand language.) They(the despicables) would not leave him for giving lip service to stricter gun laws or even nibbling a bit at the corners just to appease that small group who will otherwise throw their hands up and walk away from him for not doing anything about gun violence. I believe it will be a crucial issue in the campaign.

But the larger issue is what kind of strategy the democratic party puts together.

And the existential issue is what to do about Walter (and me).
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Unread 08-04-2019, 01:03 PM
John Isbell John Isbell is offline
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What Walter said.

Cheers,
John
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  #7  
Unread 08-04-2019, 01:20 PM
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Allen Tice Allen Tice is offline
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Not ! what Walter said, genius though he is. Something has to happen to keep unstable (mostly young) men and guns apart. With printable guns this is going to be even harder. How? How?
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Unread 08-04-2019, 01:51 PM
Matt Q Matt Q is offline
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We manage it pretty well in the UK, Allen.
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Unread 08-04-2019, 02:23 PM
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Allen Tice Allen Tice is offline
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True, knife issues apart. But, but the US has a huge, expanding base of rapid-fire registered weapons that are traded casually or illegally. Printable firearms that lack any registration, even flimsy, are a coming nightmare. The collapse of the social shame (I really mean this) that used to inhibit many violent outbursts, and the hurricane of provocative information inputs (true and rubbish), and the ready availability of weapons, and the cultural failure to effectively evolve new behavioral expectations — aggh. Aggh. Aggh! Even a Constitutional Amendment will not do enough, rapidly enough to diminish the “installed base” of firearms available to weak egos who see guns as a holy requirement — not as an instrumentality for wise use.

Last edited by Allen Tice; 08-04-2019 at 02:27 PM.
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  #10  
Unread 08-04-2019, 02:44 PM
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These problems precede and will outlast Trump's presidency, whether four or eight years. He is simply not intellectually curious enough to solve these issues. But a Democratic president is no sure solution. Maybe Sanders. Maybe Warren. Biden absolutely not. As Yeats should have said, a centrist cannot hold the country together.

But what a joke: Survivors of the Las Vegas shooting in attendance at the garlic festival. Victims as usual setting up GoFundMe accounts to pay for their medical expenses because there is no universal healthcare in the so-called richest country in the world. A systemic failure to counter climate change and imperialism, the two greatest causes of mass migration, which the white supresident uses to rally his base, one member of which authored our almost-latest mass shooting. A refusal to seek alternative energy sources that would peacefully weaken a Saudi regime that relies on oil and foments fundamentalist Islam, which again causes unrest and migration north, thus inciting right-leaning, anti-immigrant politicians who continue the cycle.
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