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  #21  
Unread 03-27-2019, 07:48 PM
Aaron Novick Aaron Novick is offline
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Originally Posted by Andrew Szilvasy View Post
Tell me one thing anyone who won the Nobel prize won?
The Nobel prize 🤡
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  #22  
Unread 03-27-2019, 07:52 PM
Mark McDonnell Mark McDonnell is offline
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I don't understand your point Andrew. I was responding to Aaron claiming that @dril has 'perfected' the tweet in the same way Swift perfected the satirical novel, as they were both relatively new forms at the time, by questioning if they were comparable in their formal innovation.
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  #23  
Unread 03-27-2019, 07:54 PM
Jim Moonan Jim Moonan is offline
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x
I’m-a-gonna try to ease into this Nobel Prize conversation with a nomination of my own:

https://youtu.be/An5a6h7vA00

Yup, I've fallen.

x
x
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  #24  
Unread 03-27-2019, 07:57 PM
Andrew Szilvasy Andrew Szilvasy is offline
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Originally Posted by Mark McDonnell View Post
I don't understand your point Andrew.
Nor should you have.

Let me try that again.

Name one Nobel winner who was an innovator.
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  #25  
Unread 03-27-2019, 08:05 PM
Mark McDonnell Mark McDonnell is offline
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Bob Dylan.
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  #26  
Unread 03-27-2019, 08:11 PM
Andrew Szilvasy Andrew Szilvasy is offline
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Originally Posted by Mark McDonnell View Post
Bob Dylan.
If I granted that--and I don't--that's one. Hardly a consideration for the Nobel, so far as I can tell. All of the writers are traditional or, if they're nearer the avant garde, they are hardly the innovators of it. We can quibble on maybe two or three others.

Tell me, honestly, what makes Dylan so innovative? That he played the electric guitar? Nothing in his music, verse, or storytelling isn't something already done by someone else.
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  #27  
Unread 03-27-2019, 08:17 PM
Mark McDonnell Mark McDonnell is offline
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He did something different and unprecedented that previous traditional folk singers hadn't done: an attempt to marry influences from older and modern poetry with popular song. He brought to a wide audience (in the important first 15 years of his career) the American and European folk song tradition, caustic political polemic, surrealism and symbolism, Beat poetry, modernism, Blakean apocalyptic visions and a brand new confessional complexity to the 'love song', that had a huge impact on a generation. Look at the lyrics to Tombstone Blues I posted above and tell me who else was writing songs like that in 1965?

But anyway, my point wasn't about innovation. That was Aaron's argument that I was just responding to, that Mr Dril is innovative because he has 'perfected' this amazing new form called the tweet!
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  #28  
Unread 03-27-2019, 08:21 PM
Aaron Novick Aaron Novick is offline
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Yes, all things that had been done before, but perhaps not quite in those ways or those combinations, generating a new and influential effect—exactly the same sense in which @dril is an innovator.
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  #29  
Unread 03-27-2019, 08:23 PM
Jim Moonan Jim Moonan is offline
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Aaron, Andrew -- you should not have brought Bob Dylan into this conversation. Therein lies the problem.

Does Dril really have a body of work that has been scrutinized to the extent that it warrants serious consideration? As tarnished as it might be, the Nobel Prize in Lit is not a talent search. This is not American Idol. Not Britain's Got Talent.
I will check out Dril and get back. If it's online web-based savvy that he brings to the table, then I personally am more impressed with Brian Bilston at this point but I could be persuaded. As I said, I'll get back.

But you've got to leave Bob Dylan out of the conversation. Here's Dylan's poetic storytelling gift on full display:

Romance In Durango
Bob Dylan

Hot chili peppers in the blistering sun
Dust on my face and my cape
Me and Magdalena on the run
I think this time we shall escape

Sold my guitar to the baker's son
For a few crumbs and a place to hide
But I can get another one
And I'll play for Magdalena as we ride

No llores, mi querida
Dios nos vigila
Soon the horse will take us to Durango
Agarrame, mi vida
Soon the desert will be gone
Soon you will be dancing the fandango

Past the Aztec ruins and the ghosts of our people
Hoofbeats like castanets on stone.
At night I dream of bells in the village steeple
Then I see the bloody face of Ramon.

Was it me that shot him down in the cantina
Was it my hand that held the gun?
Come, let us fly, my Magdalena
The dogs are barking and what's done is done.

No llores, mi querida
Dios nos vigila
Soon the horse will take us to Durango
Agarrame, mi vida
Soon the desert will be gone
Soon you will be dancing the fandango

At the corrida we'll sit in the shade
And watch the young torero stand alone
We'll drink tequila where our grandfathers stayed
When they rode with Villa into Torreon

Then the padre will recite the prayers of old
In the little church this side of town.
I will wear new boots and an earring of gold
You'll shine with diamonds in your wedding gown

The way is long but the end is near
Already the fiesta has begun.
And in the streets the face of God will appear
With His serpent eyes of obsidian.

No llores, mi querida
Dios nos vigila
Soon the horse will take us to Durango
Agarrame, mi vida
Soon the desert will be gone
Soon you will be dancing the fandango

Was that the thunder that I heard?
My head is vibrating, I feel a sharp pain
Come sit by me, don't say a word
Oh, can it be that I am slain?

Quick, Magdalena, take my gun
Look up in the hills, that flash of light
Aim well my little one
We may not make it through the night
x
x
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  #30  
Unread 03-27-2019, 08:25 PM
Andrew Szilvasy Andrew Szilvasy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Novick View Post
Yes, all things that had been done before, but perhaps not quite in those ways or those combinations, generating a new and influential effect—exactly the same sense in which @dril is an innovator.
Bingo.

Also, I'm no scholar on the 1960s folk scene. Neither are you, Aaron. And neither are you, Mark. But I would suspect you're accepting an ex post facto narrative.
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