Eratosphere Forums - Metrical Poetry, Free Verse, Fiction, Art, Critique, Discussions Able Muse - a review of poetry, prose and art

Forum Left Top

Notices

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Unread 06-20-2019, 04:40 PM
Aaron Poochigian Aaron Poochigian is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,343
Default

Here are some grammatical notes on "for all of" and "for all (that)":

https://english.stackexchange.com/qu...-spite-of-that

https://forum.wordreference.com/thre...e-for.3187899/
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Unread 06-20-2019, 05:18 PM
Mark McDonnell Mark McDonnell is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Staffordshire, England
Posts: 3,188
Default

Aaron — Mark, thanks for explaining in more detail your issues with the word choice there. I think I'm still going to stick with 'advice', as it does what I want it to at the close.

Mark — Fair enough, Aaron, it's your call. I do quite like the poem.



There, I did it for you. Easy, isn't it?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Unread 06-20-2019, 05:31 PM
Aaron Poochigian Aaron Poochigian is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,343
Default

Does anyone still have issues with the "for all of" and "for all (that)" constructions?

Last edited by Aaron Poochigian; 06-20-2019 at 05:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Unread 06-20-2019, 06:07 PM
Allen Tice's Avatar
Allen Tice Allen Tice is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY USA
Posts: 4,525
Default

Aaron, this is a delicate poem, grackles and all. They're okay. One of your better ones.

(Now, my personal soapbox yell that is extraneous to the poem: On the matter of the "second chance." I just don't much want some dopey reincarnation into a dying universe, like coming back as a better version of myself, with better luck with some friends, in a cosmos that's going to dissipate ultimately, where all the stress everybody undergoes is meaningless in the end. Not that I wouldn't very much like to spend some time with what and those I think would make me happier, or happy. I would. But a second chance (or thirty-fifth) isn't really good enough for me if it's all going down the drain eventually. So, though I do like the poem, and the voice in it, a "second chance" (or more chances) for me has to lead to something qualitatively different. Something that makes the Second Law of Thermodynamics irrelevant entirely. No cosmic carousel for me. Simple reincarnation isn't good enough, at least as I understand it. Nirvana is nada: no excuse at all. And YOLO - "you only live once" - is such a piece of crap.

Nonetheless, and don't get me wrong, I'm quite sympathetic to the impulse you express very well in the poem.

Sorry, Aaron, you shouldn't reply to all that. It's my bitch at the state of affairs we live in.)

Last edited by Allen Tice; 06-20-2019 at 08:40 PM. Reason: Precision
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Unread 06-20-2019, 06:11 PM
Aaron Poochigian Aaron Poochigian is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,343
Default

Thank you, Allen. Yes, I, too, am quite frustrated with only getting one short life. I hope the poem expresses an (irrational) insistence on hope, sort of like Auden's existentialist irrational urge toward faith in "For the Time Being."

I've felt hopeful lately. I don't know why.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Unread 06-20-2019, 07:38 PM
John Isbell John Isbell is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: TX
Posts: 4,952
Default

Hi Aaron,

So "is" to me suggests a bit that this already the state of affairs in the tree. Conceive and comes would I think more clearly establish that this would be a change from how things now stand. My 2c, as they (and I) say.

Cheers,
John
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Unread 06-21-2019, 02:23 AM
Aaron Poochigian Aaron Poochigian is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,343
Default

John, I see you point.

Everyone, which second stanza do we prefer:

To catch the difference of this, conceive:
among the trees where grackles live to grieve
like victims of a disappointed love,
there is a fluttering and, whoosh, a dove-
excitement rising. Hope is for the brave.

To catch the difference of this, conceive:
among the trees where grackles live to grieve
like victims of a disappointed love,
a fluttering begins and, whoosh, a dove-
excitement rises. Hope is for the brave.

I still think I might prefer the first. Hmn.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Unread 06-21-2019, 09:45 AM
Jim Hayes Jim Hayes is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Kilkenny, Kilkenny, Ireland
Posts: 4,919
Default

Aaron, I confess I find the contrivance “for all of” to be overly affectatious and feel that the simpler “because of “ works equally as well and conveys the message quicker.

The sonics are excellent and the cloths of heaven rhyme scheme, vaguely Yeatsian,
works well, but I’m not convinced by grackles that grieve and doves that whoosh as metaphors for lost love and the expectation, exhilaration, of hope for the afterlife.

It’s easy to like the poem, and it seems to me that it is something that will grow and develop into something more.

Jim
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Unread 06-21-2019, 10:19 AM
Aaron Poochigian Aaron Poochigian is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,343
Default

Thank you, Jim. I, on the whole, eschew archaisms and anachronisms but feel "for all" here adds gravitas to the utterance.

Besides, "because" and "despite/in spite of/for all of" are very different in meaning.

Some will buy the birds; some won't. I accept that. I feel the exhilaration of the doves, and that is enough for me.

Best,

Aaron
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



Forum Right Top
Forum Left Bottom Forum Right Bottom
 
Right Left
Member Login
Forgot password?
Forum LeftForum Right


Forum Statistics:
Forum Members: 8,021
Total Threads: 19,982
Total Posts: 255,576
There are 143 users
currently browsing forums.
Forum LeftForum Right


Forum Sponsor:
Donate & Support Able Muse / Eratosphere
Forum LeftForum Right
Right Right
Right Bottom Left Right Bottom Right

Hosted by ApplauZ Online