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  #21  
Unread 07-13-2019, 05:39 AM
Jim Hayes Jim Hayes is offline
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Thanks Mark for coming in on this, I feel you’re right that I’m packing too much into the contrarian line, and your fix works, but I want her to have an input into the
decision process, if you like.

Abandoning the contrary rhyme altogether would this work?

There are no visions wherein He appears
she’s delegated all those gigs to Mary,
though He’s not performed a miracle in years
she deems (rules) the proofs from new saints cannot vary.


Best regards

Jim
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  #22  
Unread 07-13-2019, 05:56 AM
Matt Q Matt Q is offline
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Hi Jim,

Thinking about this some more: the point being made is that God hasn't 'performed' any miracles lately. But in the canonisation process it's saints who are said to 'perform' the miracles, either when alive or posthumously (e.g. the claims of miracle cures as a result of praying to John Paul II after his death).

I guess all miracles are ultimately down to God, but in the normal usage of the word, anyway, various saints etc have performed miracles over the millennia.

So, it's not immediately clear that contesting claims to new miracles performed by new saints would contradict the the claim that God hasn't been performing miracles himself (just as he's not appearing himself). Likely I'm overthinking this. But still, it made me think, how about:

He's not okayed a miracle in years

or something like that? He gets the request but ignores it or turns it down. In which case, perhaps, it would seems to make more sense that the factotum queries the claims of miracles performed by new saints.

Not a big deal, but I guess I also wonder why the factotum, God's PA, wants it known that He's no longer active on the miracle front? I guess she's not doing his PR, but still: she buries the scandals (hides it from Him?), she looks after his ego by maintaining the fiction that He's the only one (great closing line, by the way), so why not help perpetuate his church and its belief in His power and the benefits of praying to Him? I guess maybe she's doing His bidding and He doesn't want the faithful believing that new miracles have happened ...

best,

Matt
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  #23  
Unread 07-13-2019, 06:11 AM
Jim Hayes Jim Hayes is offline
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Excellent point Matt, if I emend the third line in my reply to Mark above to read

He’s not approved a miracle in years.
She deems the proofs from new saints cannot vary


The ‘proofs’ implying of course a familiarity with the requirements for canonization in the reader

Addressing your interesting musings, despite her support for Him and her need to provide protection, I wonder if she really believes in Him.

Therein lies the rub

Best wishes

Jim

Last edited by Jim Hayes; 07-13-2019 at 06:18 AM.
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  #24  
Unread 07-13-2019, 07:05 AM
Matt Q Matt Q is offline
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Looking at the version you suggested to Mark. I'm wondering how strong -- or clear -- the 'cannot vary' line is. I mean, I get it, I think, but I already know what it's supposed to mean. They cannot vary from ... the truth? vary from the standard expected?

It occurs to me you have alternatives to Mary that may have better rhyme options. For example something like (albeit with better metre!):

she now gives all his gigs to the Virgin

you'd have the option of something like "she [something] the new saints proof from emerging" (or "resurging") or the line could end 'at her urging'

I guess there's also 'Our Lady', though it doesn't throw up any obvious lines/rhymes ('shady' I guess, if influences things secretively).

best,

Matt

Last edited by Matt Q; 07-13-2019 at 07:08 AM.
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  #25  
Unread 07-13-2019, 09:00 AM
Jim Hayes Jim Hayes is offline
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Matt as you get it, the ‘proofs’ are referring to the previous miracle line, and require a passing knowledge of the rules of canonization, a lack of which is probably the inherent weakness.

‘Virgin’ does give more rhyming possibilities, which I will give some thought to, I will be hoping to hang on the more accessible ‘ Mary ‘ tho’

Thanks greatly

Jim
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  #26  
Unread 07-13-2019, 10:19 AM
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Martin Rocek Martin Rocek is offline
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Hi Jim,
I prefer the original version of L6 and L8; I found the rhyme Mary/contrary funny and all the fixes proposed by you and others seem contrived.

Just my opinion.

Martin
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  #27  
Unread 07-13-2019, 10:30 AM
Jim Hayes Jim Hayes is offline
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Yes Martin, that has indeed been the problem,
Does this make an improvement?

There are no visions wherein he appears
she’s delegating all those gigs to Mary,
He’s not permitted miracles in years.
She dismisses new saints proofs as airy-fairy.


Jim
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  #28  
Unread 07-13-2019, 11:31 AM
John Isbell John Isbell is offline
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That’s kind of fun! Though I also liked the original.

Cheers,
John
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  #29  
Unread 07-13-2019, 01:44 PM
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Martin Rocek Martin Rocek is offline
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I would stick with contrary--how about:

There are no visions wherein He appears--
she’s delegating all those gigs to Mary.
He’s not permitted miracles in years,
despite the claims of saints to the contrary.


I find the Mary/contrary rhyme a nice joke. I would keep capitalizing He, and propose a small revision of the punctuation.

But others disagree with me on the Mary/contrary rhyme, so it depends on how you hear it.

Best,
Martin
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  #30  
Unread 07-14-2019, 03:39 AM
Jim Hayes Jim Hayes is offline
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Thank John and Martin , for your affirmation, and particularly Matt and Mark for your deep consideration and reflection.

After much trial, I have concluded that flawed though the meter may be to some readers nothing says what I want to say as well as the original does. ‘Contrary’ in context carries weight and nothing I have tried is an improvement.
C’est la vie

Thanks very much again

Jim
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