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Old 02-22-2018, 09:50 AM
John Isbell John Isbell is online now
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Here's a headline from The Hill: "Trump: I never said 'give teachers guns'".
In other news, we are at war with Eurasia.

John
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Old 02-22-2018, 07:06 PM
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Orwn Acra Orwn Acra is online now
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Well, we are always at war.
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Old 02-23-2018, 01:43 AM
John Isbell John Isbell is online now
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True, we are. But what strikes me is Trump's evident belief that what he said the previous day can, with the aid of Fox News and its ilk, vanish down the memory hole. To me, this is a new development in American history.
We are at war with Eurasia. We have always been at war with Eurasia.

John
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Old 02-25-2018, 01:41 PM
Jim Moonan Jim Moonan is offline
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Trump is a bridge burner. A fire starter. A Spewer of Conflict.

I'm cherry picking, of course.
x
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Old 02-25-2018, 01:47 PM
John Isbell John Isbell is online now
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My cousin said it reminds her of those pioneer homes where the kitchen was separate in case it caught on fire. And our kitchen is now on fire.

John
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Old 02-25-2018, 04:51 PM
John Riley John Riley is offline
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I can't help be dejected over how fast so many voters have factored in that he is without honesty. It is personal to me. My father, who died very young from alcoholism, came to the point toward the end where he would rather tell a lie than the truth. It was as though he needed to stay in training. I remember realizing at a too young age that he really believed his lies. That he was the first one to believe them. Trump reminds me so much of my father in those last years. The loudmouth, the way he can tell his followers a black door is white and they believe and enable him. It isn't reassuring.


(And no, I don't despise Trump for any Freudian reasons although I did learn at an early age how to spot a psychotic liar, so I guess there is some connection.)
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Old 03-13-2018, 08:56 PM
Patrick Murtha Patrick Murtha is offline
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Changing "what I said" is not new to this administration. Let's not act like its novel to the presidency or to humanity. Hearing people say or suggest that corruption has begun or is unique by this administration is not only quite frustrating, but it is just down-right nuts! Remember when we told Russia that they cannot oust the Ukranian "legitimately elected president" Poroshenko. This happened months after we supported the unconstitutional removal of the current president at that time Yanukovych. It is even admitted that the parliament did not follow constitutional procedures. And yet, we supported this move, illegal as it was.

Remember recent news was scandalized that a member of the Trump campaign might have not reported emails to the Russia investigation--sounds very familiar! Remember when our non-Trump non-Trump government tried to influence the Israeli election! Remember when our non-Trump government tried to influence the Brexit vote! Remember when our non-Trump president seduced women and abused the power of the presidency! Remember when our non-Trump president said that there was WMD in Iraq and lead us into an unjust war. Remember when our non-Trump president promised an open government and then restricted the media in ways never before seen in this country. And what about the non-Trump collusion with the others, even our allies or our enemies, to bring down a candidate? Why does it matter that the gossip comes from an enemy or an ally? (Slander is slander, gossip is gossip, lies are lies, collusion is collusion--regardless of the friendliness of the source.) It is hypocritical to condemn one side for one thing, but not the other side for the same thing.

For myself, I say that anyone are to be condemned for anything illegal. But they are to be praised for that which is praiseworthy--whether it be a Clinton administration, a Bush administration, an Obama administration, or a Trump administration. To do otherwise is simply being party-blind, administration-blind. Praise what ought to be praised, condemn what ought to be condemned. It is as ridiculous to be "always anti-Trump" as it is to be "always pro-Trump."

How many times has Obama said and then suddenly didn't say; how many times has Clinton said and then suddenly didn't say; how many times has Bush said and the suddenly didn't say? Trump's saying and the suddenly didn't say is not new nor is it really more than his predecessors or fellow politicians.

Sincerely,
PM
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Old 03-13-2018, 09:56 PM
John Isbell John Isbell is online now
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Patrick: "Trump's saying and the suddenly didn't say is not new nor is it really more than his predecessors or fellow politicians."

I believe the data will support that it is. Factcheck.org is pretty impartial here, and a source for any claims along these lines seems worth having.
I'll leave the rest aside for a moment, only to say that Obama had no indictments in eight years. That is not the case for the Trump White House, after one year. Which is 12.5% of eight.

Cheers,
John

Update: here is politifact on Trump: http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/
and on Obama: http://www.politifact.com/personalities/barack-obama/

Last edited by John Isbell; 03-13-2018 at 10:02 PM.
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Old 03-14-2018, 07:32 AM
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Andrew Mandelbaum Andrew Mandelbaum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Murtha View Post
Changing "what I said" is not new to this administration. Let's not act like its novel to the presidency or to humanity. Hearing people say or suggest that corruption has begun or is unique by this administration is not only quite frustrating, but it is just down-right nuts!
There is something new involved here. It is the shift from hypocrisy to a revelling in ignorance and the destruction of controls and the vestiges of balance and oversight. This isn't the slowing of progress uphill through lies and deception that we have struggled against for decades. This is turning around and gleefully shoving society down the hill. Gravity makes the potential damages exponetially more severe. If you can't see the extreme differences in the present regimes approach to truth, law, and opposition you can't be taken seriously in a conversation. And many here have opposed all of the above violences (the meaningful ones) in the past. If you were not in the streets when the Iraq war started, you can shut up about all that, right? If you were then and aren't now then you have become irrelevant and apply the same remedy. If your point is that the nature of the State is innately problematic and any ignoring of the human rights abuses and violences of the past regimes is foolish then you have a fair point but your timing is suspicious and your words read more like cover for the present violences. Tell me your take on how to best fight the present rising misogyny, deportations, environmental destruction and captialist accumulation and maybe there is something to talk about. If your here selling the redemptive side of Trump, then save it. We are all full up of jackass abettors these days.
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Old 03-14-2018, 09:43 AM
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R. Nemo Hill R. Nemo Hill is offline
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"Trump's saying and the suddenly didn't say is not new nor is it really more than his predecessors or fellow politicians."

False.

Nemo
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