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  #21  
Unread 08-14-2019, 09:39 PM
A. Sterling A. Sterling is offline
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Hi Allen,

Sorry if I was unclear above. What I was saying was that the line in question was ambiguous, but the alternate (mistaken) reading involved a grammatical error, though one common in spoken English. Your first-person version does away with it, though - and, looking at them both, I find I prefer that one slightly. Not sure why. Maybe because it makes it simpler to have a protagonist-narrator rather than the two being distinct.
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  #22  
Unread 08-14-2019, 10:28 PM
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Allen Tice Allen Tice is offline
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Hello, A. (Anka), you are the only person who has questioned the grammar in the “rise / to him that says” version. Would “rise / to him which says” be better? I’m not yet clear on how changing the direct object of “rise to” from “him” to “me” affects the grammar. Both are in the objective case, for example: “the pooch ran to him” vs. “the pooch ran to me”. Can you spell out for me what you think is wrong with the “him” version. I am genuinely puzzled, but willing to learn.

PS, my problem came from not giving attention to the “can” in “can rise”.

As to my preferring the third person version, it’s a tough call, but it might have better mileage.

I’ve also debated italicizing “as if” or working the phrase into the title - perhaps by making those words the first words of the title - or even going so far as to making those words the entire title. Not sure any of that would help. There’s something about a jingly title.

Sorry about the typos. It’s late; I’m fatigued.

Last edited by Allen Tice; 08-16-2019 at 11:10 AM.
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  #23  
Unread 08-15-2019, 11:21 AM
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Hi, Sterling. This was an absurdly myopic post. Now deleted.

Last edited by Allen Tice; 08-15-2019 at 09:05 PM.
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  #24  
Unread 08-15-2019, 05:04 PM
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Allen Tice Allen Tice is offline
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Default Problem solved ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by A. Sterling View Post
“Can rise to him and say” would be one way of making it clearer.
Anka, for some reason I was unhappy with what I read in your original first post. It’s quoted just above.

“...and curtsy” is new, and no one is literally speaking. No voices as such are heard.

“...who says” allows too much confusion between the persona and the clarion, which is not a voice but I made it so. My previous “...that says” partly resolved the ambiguity. I’ve been overthinking this to to the point of posting near nonsense.

Last edited by Allen Tice; 08-16-2019 at 11:06 AM.
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  #25  
Unread 08-15-2019, 09:30 PM
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Double post from above.
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  #26  
Unread 08-18-2019, 04:14 PM
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First person dropped entirely. Two versions up.
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  #27  
Unread 08-19-2019, 09:48 PM
A. Sterling A. Sterling is offline
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OK, let me try again.

The line as you wrote it is perfectly grammatical. The line as I initially misread it contains an error common in colloquial speech—the use of the word “that” when “who” is meant—thus resulting in a confusion of subject and object. There was nothing in the poem subsequent to that that could correct this initial impression, which made for a rather discombobulating experience. Honestly, though, I wonder now whether it was even worth mentioning. I would definitely not substitute “which”.

Also, I preferred the bread roll to the muffin.
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  #28  
Unread 08-19-2019, 11:04 PM
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Anka, thank you for returning. Let’s leave it at that. Your sensitivity to grammar is an asset I wouldn’t want to lose. Bread roll or muffin are the least of my worries.
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  #29  
Unread 08-20-2019, 04:33 AM
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Daniel Kemper Daniel Kemper is offline
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take/toss
maybe use a comma instead of first hyphen? and insert another in the next line?

from
"Descending to the airport on a flight—
On interurban rail or by car—"
to
"Descending to the airport on a flight,
on interurban rail, or by car—"

{sorry, I also changed initial cap of second line. my quirk.}
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  #30  
Unread 08-20-2019, 10:34 AM
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Hi, Daniel. Your effervescence is contagious. I’m not sure about the comma trick, but it appeals to me. The question is clarity, as with Anka’s murmur. How much clarity is too much? Will surely consider.
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