[Aaron Novick]

All cops. Sorry Mark.

[Michael Cantor]

All cops, huh? Every single one. And you know this because.....

Get your head out of your ass, Aaron. Why anybody wastes time on one of your threads - even if it's only to point out how simplistic you are - is beyond me.

[Julie Steiner]

Aaron, do you remember the story of when Truth and Falsehood were bathing, and Falsehood took the opportunity to dress in Truth's clothes, and has been walking around in them ever since?

The story doesn't end there. The conclusion is that Truth preferred to go naked rather than put on Falsehood's clothes.

The truth to which you're trying to testify--namely, that too many police are committing well-documented atrocities against peaceful protesters--is bad enough on its own. You don't need to tart up that truth with false, hyperbolic absolutes like "all police are bastards."

When you become a propagandist, you stop being a credible source and a friend of Truth. And Truth needs all the friends she can get right now.

[Cross-posted with Michael]

[James Brancheau]

Amen, Julie.

[Aaron Novick]

Julie, I appreciate your serious response, and your concern. But you have misunderstood me. The truth to which I am trying to testify is not that police are brutalizing protestors (though that is certainly true). It is that the very institution of the police is a blight on our communities (especially our impoverished and minority communities, of course, but injustice degrades everyone, and so they are a blight on all of us), that the choice to become a cop is fundamentally unjust, and that the police must be abolished, and the few important functions they serve replaced with radically different models. It's why I couldn't be happier with the news coming out of the Minneapolis city council. We shall see if they follow through.

Michael, you are a pathetic, stupid little man. Thanks for reminding me.

[Max Goodman]

(I see that while I was composing this response, Aaron has already defended his position in much the way I defend it. I'll post this in support.)

"Groups tend to be more immoral than individuals" ("Letter from Birmingham Jail," which does not claim the sentiment as original).

In the video of the 75-year-old assaulted by Buffalo police, one officer bends to check on the injured man. A colleague pulls him away, and he allows himself to be pulled away. The rest--many!--walk past with no gesture toward offering aid.

Off-duty, that one officer would have behaved humanely. In this situation, because he was a cop with other cops, he was a bastard. That much sense we must honestly concede to Aaron's overstatement.

Too frequently being a police officer in this country has meant squelching one's humanity and brutalizing the underprivileged. We have to change what it means to be a police officer here.

[Aaron Novick]

Another function of the claim "all cops are bastards" (which I insist is literally true, and not an overstatement, but the function of the claim goes beyond its literal truth) is as a check on the myth of the good cop. How often do you see the response—from people who do not want to see any real change—that police brutality is the product of a few bad apples? That most cops are good and just want to do their job? That the rot doesn't strike the core of the institution itself?

When you see the videos to which I've been linking, what's your response? Is your response that those particular cops are bastards? Or is your response that the problem is the police as such? "All cops are bastards", in addition to being true, serves to remind us that the problem is the police as such, who make our communities less safe and are arguably the largest criminal enterprise in this country.

So many forget what they say about "a few bad apples": they spoil the barrel.

[Simon Hunt]

Aaron--Doesn't your insistence that all cops are bastards itself focus, as it were, on the apples when the problem is really the spoiled barrel? I'm really asking. Also, what do you reckon there should be in place of police if headway is made in defunding? FYI, Michael Cantor is fairly tall. I've seen him.

[Mark McDonnell]

Oh that's what you meant. Well, silly us. So the next time I make a foray into criticising organised religion as being the source of much ingrained hatred, misogyny and homophobia in the world I"ll save myself a lot of time and effort and just say "All Christians and Muslims are pieces of shit" shall I?

Sorry Aaron. Say what you mean the first time.

[Aaron Novick]

Simon, that's a fair concern, but I don't share it. If you see the whole barrel is rotten, wouldn't then turn your attention to the causes of the rot? And think about how to get rid of the barrel? If it's impossible for someone to be a cop and not be a bastard, shouldn't your attention naturally turn to the issues with policing as such? So I get why you're worried, but I don't think the reasoning holds.

As for what abolishing the police would look like, one example would be simply replacing some of their functions with other types of folk. For instance, police officers are often first responders for mental health crises. Police tend to exacerbate the issue. What if, instead, we sent a trained social worker or mental health profession who is not authorized to use force?

Here is a resource, from someone much more qualified than me, for learning in more detail about what police abolition might concretely look like: https://www.autostraddle.com/police-...labus-and-faq/