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  #11  
Unread 08-29-2020, 04:01 PM
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Daniel Kemper Daniel Kemper is offline
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WT and all--

I'm sorry for my outburst. I have removed it.
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  #12  
Unread 08-30-2020, 07:13 AM
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Andrew Mandelbaum Andrew Mandelbaum is offline
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Originally Posted by Daniel Kemper View Post
WT and all--

I'm sorry for my outburst. I have removed it.
I would ease off the metrical orthodoxies but keep your distrust of Larkin. I thought it was the most sensible opinion on poetics you have gone with so far. A fair few wonderful people love him here. Fair enough but I never have gotten it. Selfish spells wrapped in tweed and coated in a bad mojo chocolate dusting. Talent but has that wendigo seedling vibe all over it.
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  #13  
Unread 08-30-2020, 07:17 AM
Jim Moonan Jim Moonan is offline
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.
Convoluted quotations aside, methinks this whole thread stinks of the maladies of Baudelaire.
.
.
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  #14  
Unread 08-30-2020, 01:52 PM
Mark McDonnell Mark McDonnell is online now
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Selfish spells wrapped in tweed and coated in a bad mojo chocolate dusting.
That's fighting talk. But a wonderful description!
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  #15  
Unread 08-30-2020, 02:32 PM
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R. S. Gwynn R. S. Gwynn is offline
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If you can read Larkin without seeing his debt to the symbolistes my hat is off to you. This is, however, a very reductionist approach to Baudelaire, whose own debt to Romanticism was immense.
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  #16  
Unread 08-30-2020, 05:23 PM
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Allen Tice Allen Tice is online now
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Originally Posted by Andrew Mandelbaum View Post
spells
This reminds me of other posts of yours that hint that you see words having direct power over reality. That may be so or not, but even if so, traveling that way leads to madness. I might be very wrong in my guess and apologize.
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  #17  
Unread 08-30-2020, 06:17 PM
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Andrew Mandelbaum Andrew Mandelbaum is offline
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We are all mad here, Baby. But I am ok I think. Plenty of empircal demons in my belfry.
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  #18  
Unread 08-30-2020, 07:40 PM
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Ah well, as Martin Buber said about 2/3 of the way the way through “I and Thou,” — Here, I take a different path.
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  #19  
Unread 08-30-2020, 09:56 PM
A. Sterling A. Sterling is offline
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Hi Aaron,

What about barfing in the heavenly bowers? One can barf on them as well, I suppose, but the former seems more natural. In a sense.

The bigger problem for me, though, is that when the poem doesn’t seem to owe anything to Baudelaire stylistically, invoking him comes off a bit hollow. But that could also be because Baudelaire doesn’t fall clearly to one side or the other of the romantic/unromantic dichotomy, as some poets do, and it’s not only because others have pushed the envelope so much farther. I think it’s safe to say that he saw himself going—as his writings on art are entitled—beyond romanticism rather than against it. And that doesn’t square with the opposition the poem sets up.

And to anyone who feels inclined to direct quotations at me, I bequeath, item, a pair of merde-stained trousers to use as a tea strainer, formerly the property of Franҫois Villon – although I admit I was unable to find any reference to them after going through my book twice. Still, there’s a very strong possibility that I’m not making this up.
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