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  #21  
Old 11-21-2017, 10:33 AM
Max Goodman Max Goodman is offline
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I've written to Sen. Franken, urging him not to resign. I suspect that he's smart enough not to punish himself and the country unfairly for such a minor crime, but politicians care about public opinion, and, with so much of the "liberal" media calling for his resignation, an expression of support can't hurt.
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  #22  
Old 11-21-2017, 10:44 AM
Michael Cantor Michael Cantor is offline
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I just did the same.
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  #23  
Old 11-21-2017, 10:48 AM
Jim Moonan Jim Moonan is offline
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Here's a hypothetical: If all men were Al Frankens would the world be a safe place for women? The answer, I think, lies in knowing the man Al Franken -- and not just his politics. To this point, his sexual indiscretions did not involve lies, blackmail, psychological damage or serial acts of felonious behavior. So my guess is, yes it would be a safe place.

Another hypothetical: If all men were either Trump, Weinstein or Moore would the world be a safe place for women? Most assuredly no, except for the privileged few. Dystopia lurks.

Last edited by Jim Moonan; 11-21-2017 at 11:31 AM.
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  #24  
Old 11-23-2017, 03:17 PM
James Brancheau James Brancheau is offline
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Because of recent developments, I'll let my thoughts on this simmer awhile. Still, the discussion below is very worthwhile.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=70s&v=KTCynT2s3_o#

Added: I think it's a great discussion up to the last bits. I don't think it's a stretch to be more offended than the person actually insulted. I firmly disagree with that.

Last edited by James Brancheau; 11-24-2017 at 06:40 AM.
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  #25  
Old 11-24-2017, 09:22 AM
Jim Moonan Jim Moonan is offline
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I agree James, to a large degree.
For the first 10m or so of this he (and the others) are on point. It's that last part that I think even Maher would qualify if he were questioned on it. I think the victim's reaction to the offense is, in some cases, an indicator of the severity of the abuse. At least it should serve as a moderating influence. As Maher says at the very end, "we are living in a time when people are so self-righteous...we can't let five self-righteous millennials at the Huffington Post bully everybody into having opinions that they don't really hold."

I think that's a true dynamic of our present discourse on many issues. As the other panelist says earlier in the clip, the real issue that needs to be addressed is the systemic one.
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  #26  
Old 11-24-2017, 10:02 AM
Erik Olson Erik Olson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Moonan View Post
... The real issue that needs to be addressed is the systemic one.
I agree with that. The boorish behavior and sexual improprieties in question were not born in a vacuum. Here is an article concerning the kind of sociocultural context that is so often absent in these conversations that end up focusing on the punishment to the exclusion of everything else.
Best,
Erik
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  #27  
Old 11-24-2017, 10:16 AM
Jim Moonan Jim Moonan is offline
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Eric,
Yup – and from the Huff Post, too : )
One thing that needs emphasis/articulation is that by “systemic” we are not just referring to some amorphous cultural behemoth (To look at it that way is to be myopic) but instead to personify it as a set of individual "villagers in our village" (it takes a village). In particular parents and educators.

Education, to risk overstatement (but I don’t think so) is the answer to all our problems.

----------

I, too, wrote to Franken urging him not to resign.

Last edited by Jim Moonan; 11-24-2017 at 10:20 AM.
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