Eratosphere Forums - Metrical Poetry, Free Verse, Fiction, Art, Critique, Discussions Able Muse - a review of poetry, prose and art

Forum Left Top

Notices

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Unread 05-27-2023, 11:01 PM
Max Goodman Max Goodman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 2,253
Default

This sort of misinformation has been part of the GOP playbook going back at least to George W. Bush. They fooled CBS into reporting unfavorably on Bush's National Guard service before the 2004 election. Then they showed that the documents CBS had relied on were forgeries and--presto--any criticism of Bush's questionable military service became toothless.

Same dynamic here. The goal is to make most voters immune to becoming alarmed about book banning. "Oh, that's been discredited as a hoax."

(A famous Agatha Christie story operates the same way. Damning evidence turns out to have been faked--to protect the person implicated in the faked evidence.)
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Unread 05-28-2023, 02:40 AM
Mark McDonnell Mark McDonnell is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Staffordshire, England
Posts: 4,420
Default

That's possible, Max, but it may be over-thinking it. It's also just possible that the video is an example of the tendency of people on social media, and media in general, to catastrophize. People and groups of all political persuasion do this to the other "side" and their followers eat it up because it confirms their beliefs and prejudices. It's part of the reason we're in the mess we're in. It's a self-fuelling outrage machine. And it exhausts people and stops them looking clearly at the real injustices in front of them. This DeSantis fella is clearly not a good guy. His ideas and educational policies are cynical and draconian, but they need to be challenged for what they are. As soon as we start shouting at a cartoon tiktok version of people we disagree with we're lost and we're part of the problem.

None of this is to criticise John, or his original post. We've all done it, whether we know it or like to admit it. I've done it. The positive that I'm going to take away from this thread, apart from being glad I don't live in the US right now, is what a great and laudable career John had in educational publishing for 30 years.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Unread 05-28-2023, 07:31 AM
John Riley John Riley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 6,241
Default

Of course, this is embarrassing. Clearly, I still have an attachment to the publishing business I built that just up and flew away one day. But I am certain that if the state of Florida or Texas or other states, or if the many anti-education radical groups, have found Morgan Reynolds’s books on high school or middle school library shelves they have been taken down. In Florida, it’s now illegal to teach about the Civil Rights Movement, or any other subject regarding race or sexuality, women’s movement, and on and on, in any school or college if it makes one person in the classroom “uncomfortable.”

I should have checked out the clip more but I stand by everything I said about the virus in the bloodstream of the U.S. The clip being mislabeled is insignificant compared to the movement to control what students, and adults, think.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Unread 05-28-2023, 09:41 AM
Jim Moonan Jim Moonan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 4,198
Default

.
Max, be careful not to engage in too much whack-a-mole with the moles — Tempting as it is...

The phrase, “When they go low we go high” has been maligned of late. I’m afraid to say it, but it is the fault of the far left that the maxim has been derailed. The far left has chosen instead to play by the same rulebook as the far-right, thinking they can out-hate, out-disinform, out-undo, crumble pillars that once were/are bulwarks against the ever-returning tide that wants to destroy not preserve and perfect; that extreme left that has been trying so hard to drag us down into the quagmire when it isn’t necessary and definitely not prudent. If we can’t find it in us to go high and go hard, then we’ve lost.

Sophomoric as some may think it sounds, we have to look around us, look to what carried us through difficulties in the past. We need leaders that reflect our best values. There should be no debate as to what those values are, but the “low-goers” will have you think that. I would never entertain the idea of “turn the other cheek” when engaging with those that would pervert our humanity to be only what they deem is righteous without any respect for freedom of choice (yes, I know how the concept of “freedom” can sometimes be illusory) or dignity or diversity. This is not about turning the other cheek. It's not about passivity. It’s about non-violent tactics that undermine the extremes and lay them low in the dust of time. Go high, higher, hard, harder, smart, smarter. (Smarter than I will ever be-—ha!)

We are far away from the gates of One World. But as MLK said early in his I Have a Dream speech, “We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline.“ He nailed it. Then, of course, five years later in his final speech before his death he spoke the words, "I may not get there with you. But I want you to know tonight, that we, as a people, will get to the Promised Land”. We, all of us, will likely not get there, but our children can if we help them, and their children can do the same.

We should never lose sight of the power contained within those two profoundly lucid MLK speeches. Those two speeches combined should be the foundation of a new, revised constitution that is future-facing. That, imo, would be how to go “high” and “hard”. Carpe Diem. We need a new world. We need leaders. We need artists, families, the old, the young, the rich, the poor, the weary, the wide-eyed — all to become one. It’s Sunday. My day to preach : ) I’ve said enough.


Mark, Yes. When we look with one eye open things can easily fool us. With two eyes open we are much more prepared to spot the nefarious ones who want our world to fall back on it’s knees and be obedient to their myopic visions rooted in misinformation, lies and deceitful behavior. And with all eyes open and working together we can move mountains.

.

Last edited by Jim Moonan; 05-28-2023 at 06:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Unread 05-29-2023, 01:24 PM
Jennifer Reeser's Avatar
Jennifer Reeser Jennifer Reeser is offline
Distinguished Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: United States
Posts: 2,444
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Riley View Post
I don't care how damn high the price of cheese is
That is awesome, John, your devil-may-care attitude towards profit, your generous spirit, and your altruism are admirable.

Here's the solution, do this -- offer every single one of them on the Internet, absolutely free of charge. Show those evildoers on the other team how it's done, teach them a lesson they'll never forget, so that kids who can't afford to eat can read award-winning Dietrich Bonhoeffer.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Unread 05-29-2023, 03:01 PM
John Riley John Riley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 6,241
Default

Jennifer, that’s brilliantly put as usual but it means nothing. Children are less likely to be hungry now than they were in 2020. You can’t have it both ways. Everything the Republicans got for holding a gun to America with the debt ceiling hostage taking was to make it more difficult for poor and hungry people to eat. So, as much as I admire your talent and intelligence, you need to take that argument back to the garage.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Unread 05-29-2023, 03:54 PM
Jennifer Reeser's Avatar
Jennifer Reeser Jennifer Reeser is offline
Distinguished Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: United States
Posts: 2,444
Default

One further idea, then you gentlemen may continue this... discussion... utterly without my subscription.

The other day, I went down to donate some items to a local charity upon which the poor and low-income depend heavily. A sign on their counter read, "We apologize but for the first time in ten years we have had to raise our prices due to very high inflation."

You could donate the books too, since many can no longer afford to buy any books at all, not even shoddy, second-hand books.

Happy Memorial Day. God bless America. Let freedom ring.

J
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Unread 05-30-2023, 04:54 PM
Mark McDonnell Mark McDonnell is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Staffordshire, England
Posts: 4,420
Default

Quote:
Of course, this is embarrassing... I should have checked out the clip more but I stand by everything I said about the virus in the bloodstream of the U.S.
John, you're right to stand by it and you have nothing to be embarrassed about. I apologise if my pedantry about the veracity of this particular case overshadowed the important point you were making with this thread. I get why James came back at me the way he did, too. My eagerness to debunk was probably very annoying. These people are dangerous and it's easy for me to take the cooler perspective from an ocean away.

Last edited by Mark McDonnell; 05-30-2023 at 05:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Unread 06-01-2023, 01:07 PM
James Brancheau James Brancheau is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Taipei
Posts: 2,623
Default

Yes, Mark, debunking misinformation, or lies, from the left, or from what the left would cling on to, is essential. It's more important than ever to be honest and accurate. It's not a fight fire with fire situation. Water, or sand, or, if it's a chemical fire, it gets complicated. My only protest is that it seemed to obscure the absolute insanity of what's going on in Florida. According to my students (I haven't looked into it), there's an exodus happening in the south now. Florida used to be not quite really, or at all, the South. Was something to be proud of.

Last edited by James Brancheau; 06-01-2023 at 11:52 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Unread 06-02-2023, 01:20 AM
Mark McDonnell Mark McDonnell is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Staffordshire, England
Posts: 4,420
Default

Quote:
It's more important than ever to be honest and accurate...My only protest is that it seemed to obscure the absolute insanity of what's going on in Florida.
Yeah, I stand by the principle of debunking misinformation, whether it's from the right or the left. It was the timing. I could probably have PMd John instead. Thanks James.
X

Last edited by Mark McDonnell; 06-02-2023 at 07:19 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



Forum Right Top
Forum Left Bottom Forum Right Bottom
 
Right Left
Member Login
Forgot password?
Forum LeftForum Right


Forum Statistics:
Forum Members: 8,399
Total Threads: 21,841
Total Posts: 270,809
There are 1498 users
currently browsing forums.
Forum LeftForum Right


Forum Sponsor:
Donate & Support Able Muse / Eratosphere
Forum LeftForum Right
Right Right
Right Bottom Left Right Bottom Right

Hosted by ApplauZ Online