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  #1  
Unread 08-05-2020, 10:14 PM
Quincy Lehr's Avatar
Quincy Lehr Quincy Lehr is offline
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Default Poetry’s auto-da-fe

In addition to not-too-implicitly denouncing their own legacy as ostensibly deeply racist (which in my mind is strangely hubristic—any po-mag’s role in upholding white supremacy or any other ruling-class ideology will necessarily be minimal) and seemingly trying to cram as many craven wokelib stereotypes as possible into the smallest space possible, the writing here is unforgivably unlovely:

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/har...eturn-and-more
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  #2  
Unread 08-06-2020, 12:03 AM
Julie Steiner Julie Steiner is offline
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Cue the Confessional Poetry jokes.

Quote:
How will this impact the poets who contribute to the magazine and rely on that income?
Ah, yes, consider the plight of all those poets who get published in Poetry often enough to rely on that income.
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Unread 08-06-2020, 04:47 PM
W T Clark W T Clark is offline
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I can sympathise with your opinions. Julie, I had similar thoughts when I read that part. The most interesting question for me is, was Don Share forced out, or maybe resigned out of shame?

Regards,
Cameron
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  #4  
Unread 08-06-2020, 08:06 PM
Martin Elster Martin Elster is offline
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Although this video I linked to below is more about firing people from universities, as opposed to a poetry magazine, I think it's worth listening to and makes some good points.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wChB-J_qnKE

By the way, I haven't read the article that Quincy linked to at the top of the thread, but I'll take a look at it a bit later.
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  #5  
Unread 08-07-2020, 11:54 AM
Julie Steiner Julie Steiner is offline
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Martin, it would make for a much more productive conversation if you stated which interesting points in the one-hour interview you linked to relate specifically to aspects of the three-minute read that Quincy linked to.

My problem with such abject apologies is that they have all the sincerity of other coerced confessions, from Soviet show trials to ISIS propaganda videos featuring cowed, contrite hostages. Quincy mentioned the unloveliness of the writing, and I was reminded of this statement by Merrill Newman, the U.S. Korean War veteran who was detained by North Korean officials a few years ago:

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“To demonstrate that I was reading the document under some duress, I did my best to read the ‘confession’ in a way that emphasized the bad grammar and strange language that the North Koreans had crafted for me to say. I hope that came across to all who saw the video.”
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u...flna2D11721096
(The various Poetry statements are of course different, because in general the people confessing are doing so on the behalf of an institution's entire history, or they are acknowledging things like police brutality that are happening outside their institution. So their own individual complicity in the purported crimes is pretty negligible anyway. So it rings a little hollow.)

The Board's Open Letter of Commitment to our Community contained the line, "We acknowledge that we are predominantly white, and occupy other privileged identities." Individually, they can't stop being who they are; institutionally, they can commit to diversifying their recruitment strategies to better fulfill their mission:

Quote:
The Poetry Foundation, publisher of Poetry magazine, is an independent literary organization committed to a vigorous presence for poetry in our culture. It exists to discover and celebrate the best poetry and to place it before the largest possible audience.
Recognizing that the composition of their board needs to reflect the diversity of their audience and of the kinds of poetry "in our culture" is one thing. Extravagant self-flagellation for being white and/or privileged in other ways is quite another, and it comes across as egotistical rather than focused on best serving the art form and the community.

Actually, what I am reminded of more than anything is the times when my mom was furious with my dad about something, and my dad CLEARLY (to me) didn't really understand exactly why whatever he had done was wrong, but he DID understand that Mom's unpleasant lectures on the subject would continue until he could convince her that he had seen the error of his ways. So, his dramatically heartfelt apologies always reflected back words and phrases from those lectures.

The incongruous "Love" at the end of the Poetry interim editors' statement reinforced that impression.

Last edited by Julie Steiner; 08-07-2020 at 12:34 PM.
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  #6  
Unread 08-07-2020, 01:40 PM
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Kevin Rainbow Kevin Rainbow is offline
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"This embarassing fart is a neccessary part of caving into liberal terrorist-wannabes"

Poetry Floundation
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  #7  
Unread 08-07-2020, 07:06 PM
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Quincy Lehr Quincy Lehr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Rainbow View Post
"This embarassing fart is a neccessary part of caving into liberal terrorist-wannabes"

Poetry Floundation
You are insane.
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  #8  
Unread 08-07-2020, 07:18 PM
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Quincy Lehr Quincy Lehr is offline
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The key reading on this kind of thing, is "Exiting the Vampire Castle" by Mark Fisher, which at this specific moment, is one of the litmus-test readings to determine whether I want to work with someone politically or not.

I am also struck by what Thomas Frank has called "the utopia of scolding," which he sees as a constitutive part of American liberalism (if some of these types see themselves as "radicals," they are mistaken). As Frank has pointed out, the logic of this stuff is subtractive, with, reality-TV style, only the most pure surviving at the end. Organizing people involves patience and inclusion.

But that's politics, and anyone who sees the Poetry Foundation as a part of the American left, or who thinks it should be part of it, is daft.

What makes it funny in Poetry's case is that this is largely self-inflicted--I can't see anyone in their right mind wanting to edit the thing at this particular moment, certainly.
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  #9  
Unread 08-09-2020, 05:17 AM
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Andrew Mandelbaum Andrew Mandelbaum is offline
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Thanks for the Fisher article. On the money.
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  #10  
Unread 08-09-2020, 09:38 AM
Julie Steiner Julie Steiner is offline
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Yes, I appreciated that, too, Quincy. Thanks.

I hope it's obvious that I am generally in favor of measures to increase diversity, equity, and inclusion in arts organizations that claim to be representative of America.

However, extravagantly groveling gestures of contrition (especially when they go out of their way to tick every conceivable buzzword box) seem motivated by self-preservation or by personal opportunity-seeking, rather than by a sincere desire to see the organization become better equipped to carry out its mission to the American public.

And leaders who telegraph "I have no real convictions, but will say whatever seems required to gain or keep power during this time of upheaval" do not inspire much confidence. Which was, of course, why there was such an outcry over the original, underwhelming statement of solidarity. This statement seems only slightly more credible than that one, although the pendulum has swung completely to the other extreme.

Last edited by Julie Steiner; 08-09-2020 at 09:51 AM.
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