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Old 02-04-2018, 12:32 AM
Andrew Frisardi Andrew Frisardi is offline
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Default Clemente Rebora

Removed for sending out.

Last edited by Andrew Frisardi; 04-17-2018 at 08:44 AM.
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Old 02-04-2018, 06:13 AM
John Isbell John Isbell is offline
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Hi Andrew,

I've printed and compared the Italian line by line with your English, and have almost no suggestions. I love solace. Is torments what you need? Everything else seems to me to fit the Italian neatly and without join. I did wonder why you use some initial caps...
Perhaps we can sense his calling in this poem? Though that's a bit biographical.

Cheers,
John
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Old 02-04-2018, 08:47 AM
Andrew Frisardi Andrew Frisardi is offline
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Thanks, John. You mention the two things I changed at the last minute: the initial caps and "torments." I put the latter because he's referring there to Christ's Passion, and "pains" doesn't seem the right word for that. But I'm not sure.

The initial caps, maybe I should just put them for all the lines as he did, but it feels more natural (to me) with the lower-case verse openings, yet for each word after a colon it seems odd to use lower-case.

So I'm not sure about that yet either.

I don't think it is at all too biographical to think of this as connected with his calling. It's Rebora as agnostic rather than atheist, and there is no question a consciously religious meaning to the poem.

His parents were anti-clerics of the Risorgimento, and that was part of his personal struggle with those things.

Best,

Andrew
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Old 02-04-2018, 09:41 AM
John Isbell John Isbell is offline
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Hi Andrew,

Could maybe "sorrows" work for pene?
I am reassured about my biographical urge here, thanks!

Cheers,
John
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Old 02-05-2018, 11:54 PM
Andrew Frisardi Andrew Frisardi is offline
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Thanks for coming back to this, John. I've considered your suggestion, but the problem with "sorrows" is that we tend to use it less for physical pains, which the crucifixion centers on. So I'm still sitting on that word. I agree that "torments" isn't great.
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Old 02-06-2018, 05:39 AM
John Isbell John Isbell is offline
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Hi Andrew,

I of course stole it from Isaiah 53.3:

King James Bible
He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

I agree, though, the focus there is not the Crucifixion.

Cheers,
John
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Old 02-06-2018, 11:03 PM
Aaron Poochigian Aaron Poochigian is online now
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Hello, Andrew. Thanks for introducing me to this poet and poem.

I only question "when I await it least" for "quando meno l’avverto"

"when I sense it less"

"when I expect it less"

?
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Old 02-08-2018, 08:34 AM
Andrew Frisardi Andrew Frisardi is offline
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Hello John. Yeah, I did think of that biblical association with "sorrows," and you're right, it does do nicely to shade the meaning toward the crucifixion. Also, the sound is nice with "solace" after it. So I'm going for that suggestion, thanks for it. Also, I'm lower-casing all opening words of the verses.

Hello Aaron, I was going for an off-rhyme with "least," but have tried out "am less aware" now, which also subtly echoes some of the nearby words. Thanks for stopping by.
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Old 02-16-2018, 10:16 AM
Kevin Greene Kevin Greene is offline
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Such a poem! And so many decisions to be made!

I would fight for months with myself over what should best be done. For instance, I would try to save as much of the rhyme as I could, but to what avail? Would one gain more than what is lost? I don't know.

Other choices would not be any easier, though I would use 'when least expected' in a heartbeat. I would force 'recompense' down the poem's throat for 'ristoro.' (And I don't know when I would give it up.)

Tell me, how did you decide on the first line? (I might have preferred emotional tension over the physical.) And why do you seem to shy away from 'pain' or 'pains'? Just curious.

I have other questions, but I don't want to bore you. Ask if you are interested. Otherwise, please accept congratulations on what is a wonderful start.
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Old 02-18-2018, 02:21 AM
Andrew Frisardi Andrew Frisardi is offline
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Hi Kevin,

I’m pretty much set with this one, apart from the “less aware” line, which I will probably fiddle with. “Expect it least” might be a good way to go.

For the rest, I didn’t use “pains,” as I mentioned to John above, because for me that word doesn’t resonate with the Christ parallel he’s alluding to there.

In the opening line I like the sense of him physically stretched out on the image like Jesus on the cross.

As for rhyming, I preferred in this to use off-rhyme and assonance rather than full rhyme, especially with the short lines, which would require messing too much with the poem to pull that off English (far easier in Italian of course).

Thanks for taking the time to stop by and comment, and don’t hesitate if you feel like asking something or commenting further. As I say, I’m pretty much ok with the poem as it stands, though a tweak or two might happen at some point.

All best,

Andrew
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