Eratosphere Forums - Metrical Poetry, Free Verse, Fiction, Art, Critique, Discussions Able Muse - a review of poetry, prose and art

Forum Left Top

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-11-2018, 04:26 PM
Tony Barnstone's Avatar
Tony Barnstone Tony Barnstone is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 671
Default American Dreamer Haikus

Thanks for the help!

Last edited by Tony Barnstone; 03-10-2018 at 02:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-13-2018, 10:55 AM
Aaron Poochigian Aaron Poochigian is online now
Distinguished Guest
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 3,449
Default

Tony, I am glad to see you posting here again.

This is an ambitious piece and you develop the themes well. You also avoid the usual democro-poetic clichés—the sorts of things one tends to find in inauguration poems.

I am uncomfortable with a number of the soft enjambments, on prepositions (“to,” for example) and articles (“the,” for example) because the piece seems to slip from syllabic poem to lineated prose at those points.

This stanza is very powerful:

The eggs hemorrhage
..........into the toast. Peacocks screech
....................in a pen behind
the café kitchen.
..........And there are no rings of fire
....................no wheels within wheels,
no hallelujah,
..........no four score and seven years,
....................no I have a dream,
no fiery gospel
..........writ in rows of burnished steel,
....................no answer why.

To fix the four syllable last line I would suggest ending with something like:

no hallelujah,
..........no four score and seven years,
....................no I have a dream,
no fiery gospel
..........writ in rows of burnished steel;
....................there’s no answer why.

or

....................here’s no answer why.

or

....................there’s no answer here.

Best,

Aaron
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-14-2018, 05:01 AM
John Isbell John Isbell is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: TX
Posts: 2,548
Default

Lovely. I like the various birds that appear here - the ostrich does sterling duty - the hummingbird in wire. I love the descent of the seraphim. Out of the meander emerges Charlottesville, and quite right too. You lead us nicely to it, through Lithuania. I like how the Star-Spangled Banner features, in washed-out fragments.
My only two thoughts - I was a bit bored by the explanation of the waitress. Just for that moment. And Celan's "black milk" - I'm thinking you want that. I'm not sure how many readers will catch the "Todesfuge." Maybe some other hint?
Anyway, yes. Lovely and sustained.

Cheers,
John
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-14-2018, 11:30 AM
Tony Barnstone's Avatar
Tony Barnstone Tony Barnstone is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 671
Default

Thanks, John and Aaron.

John, I have scoured the Celan for other images to life -- the grave in the sky, the man who cultivates snakes -- but so far I don't see where they quite fit in without losing my flow. The original title of the poem was "Black Milk" In the end, I might just leave it as a subtle call-out for those, like you, for whom the Celan poem is one of the great ones out there. Oh, and I tried to make the parking lot argument a bit more visceral. Maybe that might help.

Aaron, thanks--it's interesting, because I conceive of each haiku as one line of poetry cut up into a William Carlos Williams triadic line, so I didn't worry TOO much about heavy enjambment, but I do see your point--it would be nicer if I could make each fragment have the integrity of a full line. So, it was a good exercise. I went through and eliminated those internal enjambments that would strike me as clumsy at the end of the line and I think the poem is improved. I appreciate you holding my feet to the fire. I don't want to get lazy!

All Best, Tony
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-14-2018, 09:00 PM
John Isbell John Isbell is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: TX
Posts: 2,548
Default

Hi Tony,

I think you're likely right to leave black milk simply for those who catch it. It's a pretty striking image, I think anyone who's read the Celan will remember it.
I like your revision to the dialogue passage. It's certainly more edgy!

Cheers,
John
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-22-2018, 12:08 AM
Tony Barnstone's Avatar
Tony Barnstone Tony Barnstone is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 671
Default

Thanks, John!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-22-2018, 08:09 AM
Kevin Greene Kevin Greene is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 725
Default

Tony, do you have access to the Rose Ausländer poem from which Celan borrowed the term 'black milk'? I can't find it anywhere online. Not that is it relevant, necessarily, but I wonder if it would give any suggestive imagery to inform your poem.

But in truth, I think you make use of this striking image in such a way that it becomes your own. I've seen such things in your work before---images and turns of phrase that are solely your own creation and with equal impact. I don't think the reader needs to be reminded of Celan or Ausländer. When the poem is one day published, perhaps the origins of 'black milk' warrants mention in 'Notes.'

Hahahhaah! I sometimes look forward to notes as much as a person's poems!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-22-2018, 10:10 PM
Tony Barnstone's Avatar
Tony Barnstone Tony Barnstone is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 671
Default

You know, Kevin, I don't find that poem, and didn't know that history. I see that the image is also traced to Alfred Margul-Sperber's "dark milk of peace," Georg Trakl's "black frost" and "black snow," Franz Werfel's "black mother milk of the end," and Rimbaud's "milk of the morning and of the night." Lots of dark lactation in that era!

I found the original german of her poem and Google translated it. And (you'll like this) I found a Portuguese translation of it.


Ins Leben

Nur aus der Trauer Mutterinnigkeit
strömt mir das Vollmaß des Erlebens ein.
Sie speist mich eine lange, trübe Zeit
mit schwarzer Milch und schwerem Wermutwein.

In ihrem Leibe wachs ́ ich wie ein Kind,
gehüllt in Nachtgesang und Schattenraum,
bis meine Leiden reif und sehend sind
und mich der Schoß hinausstößt aus dem Traum.

Da stürzen alle Wege auf mich zu,
und jeder nimmt mich in sein Anderssein.
Und Abende stehn groß in goldner
Ruh wie Engel um meine verklärte Pein.

To life

Only out of mourning motherliness
the full measure of experience flows into me.
She feeds me a long, murky time
with black milk and heavy vermouth.

In her body I grow like a child,
shrouded in night song and shadow space,
until my sufferings are ripe and seeing
and my lap pushes me out of the dream.

All roads are falling on me,
and everyone takes me into being different.
And evenings are big in Goldner
Rest like angels for my transfigured pain.

Para a vida

Apenas no ventre materno da aflição
aflui-me a medida plena do viver.
Ela me alimenta por um longo,
turvo tempo com leite negro e pesado vermute.

Em seu corpo eu cresço como uma criança,
embalada por cantos noturnos e espaços de sombra,
até que minhas dores amadureçam e se tornem visíveis
e o colo me atira para fora do sonho.

Lá lançam-se todos os caminhos sobre mim,
e cada um me conduz para sua particularidade.
E noites pairam grandes no dourado silêncio
como anjos por meu transfigurado tormento
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-22-2018, 10:16 PM
Tony Barnstone's Avatar
Tony Barnstone Tony Barnstone is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 671
Default

I see also that Immanuel Weissglas wrote a poem, "Er," that contains many of the lines Celan used, and some accused him of plagiarism. Looking at them side by side I think you have to at least say that the Celan poem is an adaptation or a riffing off of the Weissglas.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-22-2018, 10:16 PM
Tony Barnstone's Avatar
Tony Barnstone Tony Barnstone is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 671
Default

We raise graves in the air (v. 1)

We dig hard, and the others fiddle (v. 3)

Man creates a grave and continues to dance (v. 4)

that the bow (...) is streaked over these bowels * (v. 6)

Play gently from death, he is a German master (v. 7)

And when the dusk rises bloody in the evening (v. 9)

A house for all in the air digging: ... (v. 11)

... Broad as the coffin, narrow as the hour of death (v. 12)

He plays with snakes in the house, (...) and writes (v. 13)

... with snakes, weeping and ... (v. 13)

In Germany it dawns ... (v. 14)

... like Gretchen's hair (v. 14)

The tomb in clouds ... (v. 15)

... will not be judged narrowly (v. 15)

Since far the death was a German master ** (v. 16)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
barnstone, haiku, syllabics

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



Forum Right Top
Forum Left Bottom Forum Right Bottom
 
Right Left
Member Login
Forgot password?
Forum LeftForum Right


Forum Statistics:
Forum Members: 7,878
Total Threads: 19,487
Total Posts: 253,216
There are 170 users
currently browsing forums.
Forum LeftForum Right


Forum Sponsor:
Donate & Support Able Muse / Eratosphere
Forum LeftForum Right
Right Right
Right Bottom Left Right Bottom Right

Hosted by ApplauZ Online