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  #91  
Old 01-28-2018, 10:24 PM
John Isbell John Isbell is offline
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Interesting article. Nice to be reminded of the Oscar Wilde quote; I'm sure that if someone asked Kaur to defend any of her outings as art, she might say, "But that's sincerely how I feel." And she would not be alone in her perspective.

Cheers,
John
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  #92  
Old 01-29-2018, 07:08 AM
Jim Moonan Jim Moonan is offline
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John: I'm sure that if someone asked Kaur to defend any of her outings as art, she might say, "But that's sincerely how I feel." And she would not be alone in her perspective.

...But it is my firm belief that what Kaur is "feeling" is self-obsession. In that regard, she is reflecting a multi-generational shift brought on by the superficial connection of the internet masquerading as experiential connection.

Thanks for the link Matt. It reinforces my skepticism.
x
But there are pools of brightness in the darkness of the internet. Brian Bilston is one. Yes, he's "clever", glib, etc. but clearly thoughtful, observant.

There are also low-tech media that are advancing poetry into wider circles. While he was U.S. poet laureate Billy Collins started a campaign to bring poetry to the masses by posting it on buses, trains, billboards, etc.. He even established a "Poetry Channel" you could access on planes. He has also collaborated with visual artists/animators to bring some of his poetry to life on screen. Here's a batch:

https://youtu.be/ddw1_3ZVjTE
x

Last edited by Jim Moonan; 01-29-2018 at 07:18 AM.
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  #93  
Old 01-29-2018, 07:23 AM
John Isbell John Isbell is offline
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Hi Jim,

Yes, all sorts of people have sincerely felt all sorts of things throughout history, some of them appalling. It takes a thoughtless mind, or perhaps a young one, to feel that sincerity is a passport to everything good in the world.

Cheers,
John
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  #94  
Old 01-29-2018, 07:39 AM
Mark McDonnell Mark McDonnell is online now
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Thanks for link Matt, good article. Yes, I'm pretty much on board with the writer, who is articulating rather better than me what I've been saying 'ad nauseam' on this thread, with the added interesting slant of the poetry as pure capitalism. Talking of 'nauseam', the description of the 'sensitive male' equivalent of Rupi Kaur who furnishes his 'Instapoetry' with 'symbols of masculinity' made me laugh but also feel a bit sick simultaneously. But, each to their own.

I wonder what you think? Or are you just handing out buns for others to throw?

Edit: Jim, yes at least Brian Bilston is clever and quite amusing.

Edit 2: I understand, also, that nobody here has been defending what Kaur writes as great poetry (though Julie was completely sincere in how some of it affected her). It's not like I'm claiming to be the only one able to see that the Emperor has no clothes and willing to 'tell it like it is'. Andrew M, and to a lesser extent Walter, have I think been making the suggestion that regardless of her dubious poetic talent, there's something interesting, and inherently positive, in the phenomenon of Rupi Kaur (and by extension Instapoetry' in general). I understand that notion, but really can't buy into the idea.

Edit 3: I've definitely done here now...

Last edited by Mark McDonnell; 01-29-2018 at 01:39 PM.
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  #95  
Old 01-29-2018, 12:48 PM
Aaron Poochigian Aaron Poochigian is offline
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Don Patterson has just compared Rupi Kaur to Keats and Auden: https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...g-female-poets

Okee.
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  #96  
Old 01-29-2018, 05:24 PM
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Andrew Mandelbaum Andrew Mandelbaum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Poochigian View Post
Don Patterson has just compared Rupi Kaur to Keats and Auden: https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...g-female-poets

Okee.
Read the article. Unlike this post it is honest and trying to open up the conversation in helpful way as opposed to a condescending way.
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  #97  
Old 01-29-2018, 06:52 PM
Matt Q Matt Q is offline
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I think it's misleading to say that Paterson is comparing Kuar to Auden and Keats. At best, one might say he mentions Keats and Auden in the same article as he mentions Kuar.

Here's the context for Paterson's comments. Watts writes:

Quote:
Time and time again, the arts media subordinates the work – in many cases excellent and original work – in favour of focusing on its creator. Technical and intellectual accomplishments are as nothing compared with the ‘achievement’ of being considered representative of a group identity that the establishment can fetishise. This is reflected in headlines such as ‘Vietnamese refugee Ocean Vuong wins 2017 Forward Prize for Poetry’ (Telegraph), and phrases such as ‘oriental poise’ and the ‘ragged sleeve’ of ‘ordinary working people’ (Kate Kellaway in the Guardian, on Sarah Howe and William Letford respectively).
So here the focus is more on "proper" poets like Ocean Vuong or Sarah Howe; it's a general point about arts media and certainly not limited to performance poetry or instagram poets. To which Paterson responds:

Quote:
Elsewhere, we’re in agreement. Watts says “technical and intellectual accomplishments are as nothing compared with the ‘achievement’ of being considered representative of a group identity that the establishment can fetishise”. I think that’s overstated, but it’s a brave thing to say these days.

I would add that we do young, first-book poets no favours through such rapid promotion, which can make them fatally self-conscious. You can’t yet say their work is game-changing, because that’s not how the game works. We might remember that the first published efforts of Keats and Auden met with as much bewilderment as praise, as the truly ground-breaking invariably does.
So in the first paragraph he's in some agreement with Watts on a general point about poetry. And in the second paragraph he's saying rapid promotion of any new poet can be harmful. Again this is a general statement about the arts media and poetry industry, not about Kuar.

But more than this, he's actually saying that you can't call any new poet game-changing or ground-breaking, since it'll be many years before you know if ground has been broken, the game changed. He's giving Keats and Auden of examples of this taking years. He's definitely not saying Kuar (or anyone else) is game-changing like Keats and Yeats were. He's actually saying such a claim is impossible to make. And also, I think, that truly ground-breaking poets are rarely met with widespread acclaim and recognition in the way that these rapidly-promoted poets are.

Paterson makes no defence of Kuar in this article and offers no praise. He objects to Watts grouping Katie Tempest, Holly McNish and Kuar together simply on the grounds of "accessibility". He professes admiration for Tempest and McNish. Of Kuar, he says that most poets don't even consider her a poet. That's it.

Matt

Last edited by Matt Q; 01-29-2018 at 08:45 PM.
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