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  #31  
Old 02-12-2018, 06:38 PM
Aaron Poochigian Aaron Poochigian is offline
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Oh no, you have retreated into Trump tweets.
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  #32  
Old 02-12-2018, 06:56 PM
Andrew Szilvasy Andrew Szilvasy is offline
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Declaring victory merely by dictate? I thought I was just playing along.
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  #33  
Old 02-13-2018, 09:26 AM
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Allen Tice Allen Tice is offline
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Andrew, I've been told that it helps to understand that Aaron may be a member of an early Gnocchi sect, and therefore one of the benevolent 8,000 lb. puppy giants found among them. My information could be wrong, however. This is merest hearsay.
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  #34  
Old 02-13-2018, 03:52 PM
John Isbell John Isbell is offline
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Ah, the Gnocchi. I've not seen hide nor hair of them since my days in Italy. They are easily underestimated.

John
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  #35  
Old 02-13-2018, 06:32 PM
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Allen Tice Allen Tice is offline
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They're heretics.
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  #36  
Old 02-13-2018, 09:09 PM
John Isbell John Isbell is offline
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They're also delicious.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnocchi
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  #37  
Old 02-14-2018, 02:03 AM
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Julie Steiner Julie Steiner is offline
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And they're also a South American slang term for "impostors":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnocchi#South_America
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  #38  
Old 02-15-2018, 04:37 PM
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Allen Tice Allen Tice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Isbell View Post
A friend of mine argued in his Ph.D. thesis that Ovid may never have left Rome. He may have made the exile up:

Banished Voices: Readings in Ovid's Exile Poetry - Gareth D. Williams ...
https://books.google.com History Ancient General

Cheers,
John
John, I think that is not quite his entire thought, which is indeed gnarly. On the other hand, the proof of Ovid's absence from Rome is easy. He says so. If you want to believe that Williams believes deep in his witty soul that Ovid was holed up in a gilded cage on the Palatine, I have more to believe:

(a) that the world is flat;
(b) that the value of Pi is precisely 3.00000000...., and not one drop more;
and (c) that the Piltdown Man's full name was Bob Bob Bob: (Bob -- son of Bob and Babs (daughter of Bess), the son of Bob (son of Bobalulu) and Babe (daughter of Barby, who was born Cecelia but shortened her name).

The argument that Ovid never left Rome is an awesomely cute chimera that rests entirely on the lack of mention of such an exile by later writers, who, if they had enough smarts, would have said to each other in voiceless rustles: "whisper, whisper... Mehercule, we don't want to remind the powers that be about Ovid's banishment, because, umm, maybe it could happen to us too if we say something inept, I mean, umm, look who's in power, or might be ... whisper, whisper."

Alex Pope said "Nothing smarts so little as a fool."

Unfortunately, the copyright page of my copy of Wiliiams' dissertation makes no reference to Alexander Pope.
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  #39  
Old 02-15-2018, 06:04 PM
John Isbell John Isbell is offline
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The argument is a little broader and more interesting than that: as I recall, it's evidence that everything Ovid notes about the Black Sea was available to him in Rome and didn't require exile to discover. But as to a summary of Gareth's thinking as a Ph.D. student, you'd just have to ask Gareth.

Cheers,
John

Last edited by John Isbell; 02-15-2018 at 10:02 PM.
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  #40  
Old 02-15-2018, 10:10 PM
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Allen Tice Allen Tice is offline
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I wouldn't want to tempt him into a statement that he would be duty bound to defend. Ovid's writing about his transmigration to Tomis uses every cliche available to establish rapport with his readers. Shameless appropriation from anything going. Exaggeration. All marketing. Anything to fill column inches on the papyrus. The dissertation is an interesting read; ask the man who owns one.
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