[Marion Shore]

As Such, A Simile; As Much, A Sonnet

-
There was a Man,
   an old man now,

as angry   then,
   as angry   now

about what Happened
   by Such,   on Such:

Thus,   much Unjust
   still leaves   Nonplussed,

as such back Then
   as much as Now.

….
There is   This Man,
   not Then,   but Now,

that needs to Know,
   to Live,   Somehow.
-




Full disclosure: I tend to be a traditionalist. So when I first looked at this piece, my thought was "This is a sonnet?" As a reader, I probably would have passed over it with no further ado. But with my judge's hat on, I have tried to leave my prejudices behind, and give every poem a fair and objective reading – as much as that's possible! – And in so doing, I found myself liking this odd little piece very much.

There's something about the two-beat lines, the nursery rhyme quality, the strange rhymes… that give it a deceptive simplicity, and that somehow underscore the old man's sense of bewilderment, his belated attempt "to know/to Live, Somehow". The capitalizations are strange also, yet somehow work for me, although I can't exactly say how.

But – is it a sonnet? I think you could argue that it is. 14 lines of course does not a sonnet make. But if you break it down, you can see a sonnet-type structure – even though it's set up as couplets, there is a coherence and a movement, and at the ellipsis, a turn, where it switches from past to present, and builds up to the surprising and poignant concluding couplet.

I should add, that as objective as you try to be, a poem ultimately works on a subliminal level, and this definitely works that way for me. Perhaps because it reminds me of someone who was very close to me. That being said, I have a feeling this piece will be controversial. Which should be interesting. I look forward to hearing what others have to say.

[Roger Slater]

I really don't care if someone wants to call this a "sonnet," but my own opinion is that having a "sonnet-type structure" does not, by itself, make a poem a sonnet. Lots of poems that no one would call a sonnet have coherence, movement, and something resembling a turn. My own view is that if the only reason we wonder about the sonnet-ness of a poem is because the poet decided to call it a sonnet, it's not a sonnet. Sonnets are not sonnets by fiat.

But I do like the poem very much, whatever its label. Still, I feel the middle three couplets could be syntactically sounder. Their contribution to the poem is a bit muddy, since it seems that you could leave them out and the remaining four couplets would hold together without them.

[Cyn Neely]

I loved reading this one out loud. And I like the poem. Sonnet? I dunno, but I liked it and have read it many times and will read it again. I can't say that for a lot of poems I have read.

I'll leave the sonnet debate for you accomplished sonneteers.

[Simon Hunt]

I'd like to know more about why we like it. For now, I'm thinking it's over my head. Maybe I'll "get" it later--when I have time for rereading or when some kind person 'splains it to me.

It's not a sonnet for me, but so what? I don't care much about holding that line and invariably enjoy the debate over what counts as a sonnet and what doesn't.

[Cyn Neely]

I don't know Simon why we like it. I know *I* like the sound of it, and the puzzle of it - both of which inspire me to read it again.

[Elise Hempel]

I like the simplicity and compactness of this one. My complaint is the fourth couplet, which seems awkward, in both diction and forced-seeming rhyme. And not sure about the title....

[David Danoff]

A man, a plan, a sonnet... Or something.

I like this one, especially the sound of it, and I enjoy its cryptic qualities. Though Roger's right about the syntax not being quite right in the middle couplets. And he's also right that the first four lines and last four lines could stand alone, and maybe not lose much.

I feel a little let down by the way "happened" and "such" are unrhymed...or okay, maybe slant rhymed with the other lines. And on examination, I'm starting to find it unsatisfying the way lines 9-10 are stuck onto the preceding 8 lines, leaving lines 11-14 as an odd sort of concluding segment--neither sestet nor couplet. So it mimics a sonnet structure, but then it falls awkwardly in between the two best known versions.

Well, and on still further examination, "know" is an eye rhyme. Which didn't bother me--in fact I found it refreshing at that point. So maybe the earlier deviances don't matter.... Or maybe it's odd to be worrying about rhyme, when half the lines are actual repetitions.

Or maybe (I think this is my conclusion) there's an odd mix here of the very precise and somewhat loose engineering. And I think, in something this cryptic and sly-seeming, I'd like more precision.

[stephenspower]

So sonnet it is for this competition.

I liked its simplicity. I think more detail would mess up the effect. I did find a few lines clunky:

"as angry then,/as angry now" works better as "as angry then/as he his now" and would give the poem a little room to breathe.

"Happened," putting the "then" rhyme on the falling portion of the word, doesn't work for me.

"Thus, much Unjust/still leaves Nonplussed" would work better as "Much still Unjust/leave him Nonplussed," using the non-North American sense of "nonplussed" I suppose.

"to Live, Somehow" That comma isn't necessary.

As for the capitals, weird and old-fashioned, but I like them.

[Orwn Acra]

The "Is this a sonnet?" question does not particularly interest me and is bound to rouse the reactionaries; however, I find this poem to be more successful at pushing the boundaries of sonnethood than the one headlining this thread. The former, at least, approximates a sonnet's constraints as much as it can under it's own constraints (that is, it pushes the polka dots as far as they can go into resembling a sonnet). The poem above has far less strenuous constraints--it can use actual words, for instance--but violates the physics of its self-made world.

Let me unpack this idea a bit more: The use of dimeter is good; it sets up the proper tone and texture of what's to come. The couplets also fit the poem. I don't understand what is gained by not using any sonnet form's rhyme scheme (Petrarchan, Shakespearian, Spencerian) and by replacing the traditional sestet with a quartet. The poem doesn't have to be a sonnet, I am not sure why the author wishes it to be one, or what the poem gains by being a sonnet.

In my opinion, this is an interesting, but failed, experiment... if taken as a sonnet.

[Eileen Cleary]

I’m wondering why the poem is in italics-perhaps it is referencing another poem.

The nonspecific language in the verse opens the narrative to wide interpretation-probably a universal theme but a specific narrative that each reader creates, because we perceive meaning individually.

I see this as a poem about a man who was hurt or wronged-or felt as though he had been wronged- when he was younger causing him to become cold hearted or unaware of the effects of his actions on others; or perhaps shutting down to the point where he became numb (nonplussed) to the wrongs around him. The tragedy is that the boy or young man becomes someone who doesn’t know how to live or perhaps (unspoken) love.
I did find this couplet syntactically awkward and initially, puzzling.

Thus, much Unjust
still leaves Nonplussed,