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  #11  
Unread 02-18-2021, 01:06 AM
Julie Steiner Julie Steiner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Rainbow View Post
Aristoddler
Good one! How about:

Play-doh
Kiddhartha
Heideggirl

Yes, James, I thought pretty much the same things about the waffle girl, who struck me as very insightful. FWIW, I didn't regard either her weeping or the restaurant connoisseur's weeping as manipulative, even though both kids were clearly conscious of an audience. Each tantrum struck me as more of a "Let me express my sorrow so you'll know what I'm feeling" thing than a "I'm carrying on like this in hopes you'll bribe me to stop" thing. The restaurant kid in particular was participating in a sort of call-and-response ritual with the parent, and both seemed to recognize and enjoy the fact that the whole interaction was being prolonged by repeating the restaurants' names multiple times.

Jim, I occasionally laughed during those lie detector bits by Jimmy Kimmel, too, and also at some of the "I told my kids I ate all their Halloween candy" and "I gave my kid a terrible Christmas present" bits that Kimmel requested from viewers, too. But like you (I think), often I thought that aspects of these crossed the line into troublingly unethical territory. When adults feel entitled to set up, record, and share a child's distress for others' entertainment, without regard to how hurtful the notoriety of that video might be for the child for years afterward, there are certain exploitative parallels with porn production, aren't there? And I'm troubled by the inevitable trust issues that come of having the people children should most be able to rely on for love and protection instead lie to them and make them feel hurt and/or humiliated for laughs.

Cameron [Edited to say: Yes, I know that the following isn't remotely close to the point you were making by sharing your link, probably in response to Jim's comment, which wasn't making this point either--it's just a thought I had after reading both], I don't think anyone would say that Mozart's astonishing talent as a child didn't count because his father taught him several instruments at a young age. By the same token, why can't this kid be impressive even if these concepts, phrases, and gestures had been previously modeled for her by others in some way?

Last edited by Julie Steiner; 02-18-2021 at 08:50 AM. Reason: Clarification of last paragraph
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  #12  
Unread 02-18-2021, 02:58 AM
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Ann Drysdale Ann Drysdale is online now
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I wasn't prepared for how much that Jimmy Kimmel thing upset me. I actually cried and had to leave it. The thing that made me go back was that I had to find out whether the poor child was told - publicly - that he was right about that maths question.
Perhaps there was follow-up in which he was apologised-to and vindicated. I need to believe there was.
Meanwhile that raucous hooting will haunt me for days. Please tell me that it was canned and edited in.
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  #13  
Unread 02-18-2021, 08:03 AM
Jim Moonan Jim Moonan is offline
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.

I apologize for even posting the Kimmel thing. I , too, find it unsettling but saw something of a comparison to the homemade videos that James and Mark posted. I cringed at the helplessness of the boy as his world is turned upside down for a laugh. This is where laughter goes dark. (Note that it got 25 million views. 25 million.)
Kimmel has made something of a name for himself in prankster humor. Laughter at the expense of someone else's natural instincts to trust what they are witnessing/experiencing.
Some will say "lighten up". But I really am uncomfortable with humor gotten from this source.

I do love the sad beauty in the voice of the girl in Julie's video.

.
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  #14  
Unread 02-18-2021, 09:56 AM
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Ann Drysdale Ann Drysdale is online now
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Please don't apologise, Jim. I have to confess I bring a lot of my own baggage to this.

Already I am re-framing it into a gotcher story, where the pulse oximeters on the child's fingers show a dramatic drop in his oxygen as his distress brings him to the edge of... Yes, that would show them...
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  #15  
Unread 02-18-2021, 10:32 AM
Julie Steiner Julie Steiner is offline
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Jim, I respect the fact that you had the courage to consciously consider the boundaries of your unconscious comfort zone. That's a noble and worthwhile endeavor, and I think it's prompted others to do the same.

Last edited by Julie Steiner; 02-18-2021 at 01:43 PM. Reason: determine --> consider
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  #16  
Unread 02-18-2021, 10:46 AM
John Riley John Riley is offline
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I think that many children are intuitive in a way adults forget to be. There is an obvious intelligence in this child but there is also an awareness that only comes from touching feelings in a way we too often learn not to do as we age. I saw it in my children and sadly I saw some of it go away but not as much as I see in other adults. They both, including my special-forces son, have a high empathy ability that causes them to have unsettling emotions at times. (He cried like a child at his sister's recent wedding, for example.) I also see it in my granddaughters, particularly the one who is 2 1/2. I think of this often. I sometimes think, and I am a very rational, secular person not prone to most of what society calls mysticism, that at birth we retain a connection to a vitality we are taught to let go of as we age and are squeezed into the rat race and culture. Again, I'm not a flake, far from it. I wish I was less analytical but it is that analytical side of me that has noticed this depth in children over and over.
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  #17  
Unread 02-18-2021, 01:44 PM
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Kevin Rainbow Kevin Rainbow is offline
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Most of these things are true about women too. Women and children are seen as, and often really are, better representatives of human nature than men. This is because they have been far less involved in making the world revolve around corrupting entities such as money, politics and wars.
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  #18  
Unread 02-18-2021, 03:05 PM
James Brancheau James Brancheau is offline
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Jesus Christ

Last edited by James Brancheau; 02-18-2021 at 03:06 PM. Reason: I had to add Jesus to Christ to post
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  #19  
Unread 02-18-2021, 03:24 PM
John Riley John Riley is offline
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Kevin, that is baloney and the typical BS you hear from a patriarchal male. Women are more spiritual and empathetic because they have been spared the "corrupting entities" of life so, darling, that is why you should stay home and knit and leave the dirty work to the men. Oh, boy. Are women spared death and disease and poverty and war and corruption? Such dainty flowers glow all through life because they leave the suffering to the men. Besides being out-of-touch with the modern world, which I'm sure is something you feel superior to, this is so shallow and narrow I can't imagine anyone who thinks this way ever writing of poem of any beauty or depth. Were women before civilization sheltered in upholstered caves while the men went out and hunted and gathered? Maybe they made delightful stone necklaces and told each other stories about how their mates always made sure they were fed and emotionally well. Holy crap, man. This is what is wrong with ideologies. All ideologies. They make the brain so small and narrow the point of reference to such pre-produced notions.

I promised myself I won't use the S-word but damn it's hard.
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  #20  
Unread 02-18-2021, 03:45 PM
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Kevin Rainbow Kevin Rainbow is offline
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Quote:
that is why you should stay home and knit and leave the dirty work to the men
Oh give it up. You are twisting my words to try to make them say something I didn't at all say or intend. If I did that to your words, I could come up with something diabolical too.

Please learn to read what words actually say instead of what they don't say.

.

Last edited by Kevin Rainbow; 02-18-2021 at 03:48 PM.
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