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09-26-2019, 06:42 AM
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I don't think Nixon resigned out of shame. He resigned because he knew that he had lost and to stay in the fight just to be punched and battered more in public was pointless. And maybe, though this is pure speculation, Gerald Ford had signaled to him that a pardon would be less likely were he to go the distance and be removed by the Senate.
But I agree that Trump is unlikely to resign even if we reach the point that he can fully expect a senate vote against him. But there's one qualification to that. If he also expects the senate vote to disqualify him from holding public office in the future (which would be likely if the senate were prepared to remove him from office), it's possible he would resign at the last minute in order to preserve the option of running again.
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09-26-2019, 07:59 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2017
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Nixon resigned in large part because GOP senators came to tell him he was going to be impeached, by them and the Democrats, and removed from office. He resigned pretty directly after their visit. I don't think shame factored in to the equation.
Trump has a highly developed instinct of self-preservation and will I think behave accordingly. Whatever it takes, when push comes to shove.
Cheers,
John
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09-26-2019, 12:20 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2006
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Post removed.
Last edited by Allen Tice; 09-28-2019 at 01:28 PM.
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09-26-2019, 12:28 PM
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Start thinking, Tice.
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09-26-2019, 12:50 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Taipei
Posts: 2,623
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I agree much with Roger. The toxicity of this presidency is getting harder and harder to deal with for a chunk (a rough guess) of republicans. I don't know that for sure, but i would think. Some of them are in swing districts/states too. Other than true believers like Nunez, who should be in a hospital, i see this as a matter of political survival on the right.
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09-26-2019, 01:12 PM
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There’s a report I’ve seen from a couple of sources that 30-odd GOP senators would immediately vote to impeach if the vote were secret. I find that conceivable. It says they detest his co-option of the party and his hold on them (I.e., the base).
Cheers,
John
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09-26-2019, 02:00 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Taipei
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That seems high, John, though maybe accurate if we could penetrate the part of the mind that says what the fuck am I doing? Much of America is quite conservative, insular. I believe 15% have a passport. And it's a problem when you're proud to be stupid. How many languages can the average American, United States citizen speak? Barely one. And should we be surprised that Trump was elected president?
Added: Didn't mean to go off like that, John. I think two of the most disturbing things about Trump is that he had enough support to get elected in the first place, and republicans walking right behind this disaster. Pretty nakedly terrible.
Last edited by James Brancheau; 09-26-2019 at 04:14 PM.
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09-27-2019, 02:16 AM
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Hi James,
Well, that's just the GOP source. To my mind, most of these GOP senators are chancers looking for which side their bread is buttered, and if they see downside for them in supporting Trump, they'll be quite happy to stick in the knife. I don't think principle really factors in for most of them, or loyalty, or patriotism, or whatever other principle you might name. Perhaps I'm unfair.
Anyway, yeah, tens of millions voted for the guy and continue to support him, which is what it is - namely, to my mind, a pretty depressing comment on how a fool and his vote are soon parted. I do think his impeachment, trial, and sentencing will be an existential moment for millions in the Trump base. Let's see what happens.
Them's my 2c on Trump base and the GOP in office today. The McCains of the party are gone, though as I say, Romney is making noises, or perhaps showing signs of life might be the term.
Cheers,
John
Anyhow, the whole process is quite compelling. As someone said, it's like Watergate, but with morons. With Nixon, it took a year and a half to get the smoking gun.
Last edited by John Isbell; 09-27-2019 at 02:30 AM.
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09-27-2019, 06:20 AM
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And as many have said, this is far worse than Watergate. Just the Ukraine thing alone is worse than Watergate, without even exploring Trump's many other sins. The underlying Watergate crime was a domestic affair that the president apparently didn't even know about or direct, and it was small potatoes that didn't have any real potential to affect the election. Nixon's only mistake was protecting the people who did it and trying to cover it up. By contrast, the Ukraine thing is a sitting president using the powers of his office to extort another foreign leader into providing devastating ammunition to use against a political opponent, with all the president's men circling the wagon and attempting to cover it up. Nixon was a piker.
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09-27-2019, 09:31 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 2,253
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I'm a little concerned that Trump's lawless attacks on the Biden family will strengthen Biden's uninspiring candidacy. The (apparently?) clandestine nature of some of his attacks makes them different, but I can't help remembering Osama bin Laden telling U.S. voters: please, whatever we do, don't reelect that terrible George W. Bush.
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