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12-30-2020, 12:42 PM
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grammar: simultaneous subject and object
Is there a rule about which takes precedence when a pronoun is both object and subject? (This seems like such a basic question that I'm embarrassed to ask it, but I don't know and can't find the answer.)
The pain tastes bitterer to he who grieves
or
The pain tastes bitterer to him who grieves ?
(I recognize that that's not a promising line. The context may or may not change that.)
Thanks for any guidance.
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12-30-2020, 01:01 PM
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Since it would be "to him" without the modifying clause "who grieves," it should be "to him" with it, too.
Actually, "him" isn't the subject of "grieves." The relative pronoun "who" is. "Him" is just the antecedent of the pronoun "who."
Last edited by Julie Steiner; 12-30-2020 at 01:04 PM.
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12-30-2020, 01:09 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2006
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Je suis d'accord.
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12-30-2020, 01:32 PM
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Thank you, Julie and Allen.
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12-30-2020, 02:47 PM
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You can trust Abe Lincoln's grammar, and the motto of the VA:
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12-30-2020, 03:05 PM
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And yet "Good things come to he who waits"
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12-30-2020, 03:18 PM
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Thank you, Joe, for making me feel a little less dumb for finding ambiguity in the construction.
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12-30-2020, 03:19 PM
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And yet? No, Joe, it's "those who wait" or "him who waits" -- though there are those who get the grammar wrong when quoting the proverb.
Lincoln again: "Good things come to those who wait, but only the things left by those who hustle."
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12-30-2020, 03:44 PM
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The "he who waits" version is not uncommon. It was the version in my head and there is a website with that title
And, following logic of Julie & Allen, shouldn't Lincoln have said "Good things come to them who wait"? (genuine question, not trying to be smartass)
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12-30-2020, 06:22 PM
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I often find it helpful to subtract a complication from the main sentence, so that it's easier to see what form the pronoun would take in without that distraction. Examples:
Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.
(Not "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.")
He tagged along after Veronica and me.
(Not "He tagged along after Veronica and I.")
Then let them who are in Judea flee to the mountains; and let them who are in the midst of it depart from it;
and let not them that are in the countries enter into it.
How poor are they who lack patience.
With plurals, using "those" instead of either "they" or "them" avoids the whole issue nicely.
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