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04-04-2021, 02:08 PM
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Join Date: May 2020
Location: England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark McDonnell
I don't think you've read Larkin, Cameron. Not really.
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Mark, your comment is a little unbeatable isn't it? Basically, if I read him deeply enough I will become appreciative; my commentary stems from a lack of deep enough reading.
I've read him repeatedly and in depth (from what I can tell. I am not stating my opinion as universal fact; it is only my opinion). And sorry, but he feels like a period piece. Luckily enough, though I can feel his influence in Duffy and Owen Sheers and other (mostly white) proto-Movementeers, newer greater writers like Vahni Capildeo are taking over. I honestly believe that Capildeo has done more for uk poetry than Larkin. Sorry again.
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04-04-2021, 02:12 PM
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Join Date: May 2020
Location: England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conny
Nah. Some people despise him, for various obvious reasons, but boring
is not a word that applies. I get that some people might try and put the
boot in every now and again, but he’s Teflon. Things just slide off without
sticking. That’s how I know how good he is/was. Betjeman said he was the
John Clare of the council estates, which I think is about right.
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We'll have to agree to disagree then. I'm not sure everything slides off, though. The contemporary scene has more modernism in it than Larkin.
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04-04-2021, 02:28 PM
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Join Date: May 2016
Location: Staffordshire, England
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It was specifically your description of him as "no nonsense, stiff-upper-lip" poetry that led to my observation, Cameron. It seemed a very one dimensional reading based more on his appearance and public persona than his actual poems.
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04-04-2021, 02:31 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2001
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Thing is, in a few years when this particular modernism is long gone, and changed into some other kind of modernism, I suspect Larkin will still be there..
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04-04-2021, 02:37 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Taipei
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I suspect that too. Larkin is not only a very fine poet, but quintessentially English. His voice resonates with me.
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04-04-2021, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Brancheau
I suspect that too. Larkin is not only a very fine poet, but quintessentially English. His voice resonates with me.
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How is Larkin quintessentially English? And how can you blanket term Englishness in such a way? It all seems rather reductive; but then again, so is Larkin's aesthetic.
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04-04-2021, 02:47 PM
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And I think we have a different view of poetry, Cameron. I'm not really interested in whether a particular poet has "done more" for poetry or has "set it back" as though it's a project with a defined forward trajectory to some ideal destination. When I read Larkin, I read someone filled with compassion, desperation, self-loathing, cynicism, yearning, wit, pettiness, insight, wonder. Messy humanity in other words. That, and unsurpassed poetic skill.
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04-04-2021, 02:49 PM
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Join Date: May 2020
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I suspect we will forget about Larkin like we forgot about Kingsley Amis. The view of language we take now, as something corrupted by history and power, and therefore multiform and not completely obedient, is more in line with any form of modernism, than the Movement.
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04-04-2021, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark McDonnell
And I think we have a different view of poetry, Cameron. I'm not really interested in whether a particular poet has "done more" for poetry or has "set it back" as though it's a project with a defined forward trajectory to some ideal destination. When I read Larkin, I read someone filled with compassion, desperation, self-loathing, cynicism, yearning, wit, pettiness, insight, wonder. Messy humanity in other words. That, and unsurpassed poetic skill.
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Mark, I don't read poetry as a project, though I do believe that Larkin set back English poetic expression. I read it for language; language made new. That's all.
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04-04-2021, 02:53 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: UK
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Thankfully Larkin didn’t have much time for words like reductive. And yes, he is
quintessentially English, no question. Though exactly what that Englishness consists of is moot, to put it mildly.
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