Eratosphere Forums - Metrical Poetry, Free Verse, Fiction, Art, Critique, Discussions Able Muse - a review of poetry, prose and art

Forum Left Top

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 10-19-2018, 01:51 PM
Martin Elster Martin Elster is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Connecticut, USA
Posts: 5,654
Default

J.B. - Now that I’ve read this again, without any pauses when the lines are enjambed, I can definitely hear that every line is pentameter (with a liberal amount of anapests thrown in, including at some line-endings). So we are both right and we are both wrong.

I also noticed that ecclesiastical/syntactical are not the only assonant near rhymes. There are also Cabaret/played and sleight/hype. So the poem has 3 assonant slant rhymes, and the rest are all full rhymes. So that works, since none of the slant rhymes stick out.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-19-2018, 03:52 PM
Julie Steiner's Avatar
Julie Steiner Julie Steiner is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Posts: 5,535
Default

J.B., I don't understand why you've taken an epigram-sized lump of butter and tried to stretch it out over a sonnet-sized piece of bread, instead of over a tasty little cracker.

The tell-y, expository feel of the middle section clashes with the playful recklessness being described, as all these supposedly transgressive trickster gods go about dutifully meeting the fourteen-line obligation. And where's the turn?

Bottom line: I don't think the sonnet form is doing this any favors.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-19-2018, 09:29 PM
J.B. Marshall J.B. Marshall is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Maryland
Posts: 81
Default Hocus Pocus

Good evening Martin,
Thanks very much for giving my poem another read as well as for giving me some insight on how you were reading the poem. Understanding how a poem is perceived is one of the reasons why a forum like this is so valuable. I am going to put this poem "in the drawer" to cogitate on it some more, then have another go at it.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 12-16-2018, 02:18 PM
J.B. Marshall J.B. Marshall is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Maryland
Posts: 81
Default Hocus Pocus

Finally was able to have another go at this poem to smooth the meter out.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12-17-2018, 01:30 PM
RCL's Avatar
RCL RCL is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,198
Default hic hoc hoc

Yeah, the hocus pocus satire of the mass’s claim of transubstantiation is challenging, though I suspect some of the well-known tricksters you highlight were known even earlier than the mass’s magic. In a warm-up for a book on Thoreau and American Humor (never finished), I found substantial evidence that he was familiar with the Native American Coyote Trickster (and loons, of course), which added some interesting nuances to his deep etymological and surface puns.

Your latest version sounds good and the meter’s much smoother, though you raised an embarrassing question about our scanning ears. The dictionary never really helped me, but the discussions by Steele in All the Fun’s in How You Say a Thing (after Frost) alerted me to the practices of promotion and demotion
__________________
Ralph
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 12-17-2018, 08:57 PM
J.B. Marshall J.B. Marshall is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Maryland
Posts: 81
Default Hocus Pocus

Another book for my library I see!
I'm still meandering through Robert Hass' A Little Book on Form. Dense - but well worth the effort.

I find the differences in how people hear meter fascinating rather than embarrassing. I was very grateful to Martin Elster for his perseverance in communicating how he heard my lines. It helped me to hear the poem with a different set of ears - so to speak.
Thanks for the read!
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 12-17-2018, 10:29 PM
Martin Elster Martin Elster is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Connecticut, USA
Posts: 5,654
Default

Hi J.B.,

The meter of the current version is much better. There are a couple of small things:

I don’t think you need that comma in L4 after Krishna:

script a whirl but Krishna rocked the hocus

In my dictionary “hocus-pocus” is hyphenated.

The enjambement “Cabaret / bacchanal” (Line 6-7), because of the headless iamb of L7, sounds a bit ungraceful. But I don’t have any suggestions. It’s not a really big deal though. “rakshasas” should be capitalized and take an apostrophe, right? “Rakshasas’”

I still like some of those fun, zany rhymes in the original version. I kind of miss those, actually. And I’m thinking of what Julie said: to paraphrase: maybe this is would be better as a shorter poem, an epigramish piece. Maybe take the best parts and make a poem in say 6 lines with the same theme. What do you think about that idea?
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 12-19-2018, 09:34 PM
J.B. Marshall J.B. Marshall is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Maryland
Posts: 81
Default Hocus Pocus

Hi Martin,
I moved the comma after Krishna and added the word "du" before "Bacchanal." I do like the rhythm better.

You wrote:
"I still like some of those fun, zany rhymes in the original version. I kind of miss those, actually."

I miss them too, but they took up a lot of space (Ecclesiastical - 6 syllables and 2 feet)
Was it Faulkner who said that sometimes you have to kill your darlings?

Thanks for the feedback.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



Forum Right Top
Forum Left Bottom Forum Right Bottom
 
Right Left
Member Login
Forgot password?
Forum LeftForum Right


Forum Statistics:
Forum Members: 7,942
Total Threads: 19,710
Total Posts: 254,741
There are 99 users
currently browsing forums.
Forum LeftForum Right


Forum Sponsor:
Donate & Support Able Muse / Eratosphere
Forum LeftForum Right
Right Right
Right Bottom Left Right Bottom Right

Hosted by ApplauZ Online