Do we have to have a ~Deep End~ anymore?

Rick Mullin · #1 10-12-2020, 08:53 PM

This question comes up from time to time. Posed often by me. Thought I'd check the waters again.

Aaron Novick · #2 10-12-2020, 09:16 PM

It's been pointless since before I got here. It's even more pointless now that Poochigian isn't here to throw tantrums about other people using it. It will never go away.

Rick Mullin · #3 10-12-2020, 09:27 PM

It was kind of shot when I got here in 2006. It was established by a coterie of the high New Formalists prior to that, as I learned it. I once aspired to posting poems there, but found that I got more and better action at Metrical. I don't know what purpose it serves at this point.

RM

Kevin Rainbow · #4 10-12-2020, 11:56 PM

On the other hand, why does the forum need a shallow end?

If you delete "Metrical Poetry" you would be free from the distractions of its lower standards and better able to uphold the higher standards of the Deep End.

Ann Drysdale · #5 10-13-2020, 12:19 AM

But if you deleted "Metrical Poetry", then "The Deep End" would be a meaningless concept. What would you call it? I suggest "Metrical Poetry".

Jayne Osborn · #6 10-13-2020, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Mullin

This question comes up from time to time. Posed often by me. Thought I'd check the waters again.

The waters haven't changed, Rick, and are not going to. How many times does it have to be said? It was Alex's choice, and we all have a choice whether to use the Deep End or not... I did last time I posted, ...possibly hoping to prevent more threads like this!

Quote:

It's been pointless since before I got here. It's even more pointless now that Poochigian isn't here to throw tantrums about other people using it. It will never go away.

Aaron,
Poochigian isn't here at the moment - which is also his choice. Your 3rd sentence is correct.

Can we just get on with enjoying the Sphere? (Please.) Annie used the word "meaningless"; yet another discussion on this topic is just that.

Jayne

Roger Slater · #7 10-13-2020, 07:01 AM

What difference does it make? Is it hurting anyone to have it?

The Deep End is scarcely the least visited forum at the Sphere. Take a look at "Submissions." The most recent post there is from 2013. Are there any General Talk threads asking if the "Submissions" area should finally be taken down? Of course not. It's not hurting anyone so no one cares. There's not a problem that needs fixing. Same with the Deep End.

Rick Mullin · #8 10-13-2020, 07:16 AM

I don't think the Deep End hurts anyone, Robert. But I don't think it serves any purpose. The poems posted there would not be embarrassed among those posted by Nemo, Susan, Walter, and others in Metrical. And the critique in Metrical varies in quality, but is, on par, as good or better than what you get at The Deep End. At worst, as a vector for self-differentiation, The Deep End reflects the darkest impulse in the "Formalist Spirit". So, every seven years I ask, do we need a ~~Deep End~~?

Jayne Osborn · #9 10-13-2020, 07:31 AM

Quote:

...So, every seven years I ask, do we need a ~~Deep End~~?

Ah, but Rick... the question is not "Do we need a Deep End?". The question is:

"Can/Will the Deep End disappear?", to which the answer is an unequivocal No. It isn't about whether there's a need for it.

Hence my earlier comment about the pointlessness of threads like this popping up on a [fairly] regular basis.

Jayne

Roger Slater · #10 10-13-2020, 07:31 AM

If it's not hurting anyone, as you acknowledge, then there's really no reason to care if Alex wants to keep it. Perhaps it remains just for nostalgic purposes. It was an institution for several years, and it represents an era in the life of the Sphere that many of us lived through and therefore it represents an era in our own lives. Think of its continuing presense as landmark preservation. Even if the building is now empty, the plaque outside reminds us what was once inside. Whatever.