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  #1  
Unread 06-23-2020, 01:29 PM
Daniel Kemper's Avatar
Daniel Kemper Daniel Kemper is offline
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Default While You Are Gone (A Note)

While You Are Gone (A Note) v2

While you are gone, the day seems like a year.
The breeze is light and crisp, the sunlight clear
and soft; the moon, obscure. What's going on?
You're just out for a morning walk. It's dawn
outside. But you are there and I am here.

A clink of tea, a crunch of toast, a smear
of avocado on the plate, austere
yet lush. What scrimption message might be drawn
while you are gone ?

Beside the tray, those earrings reappear,
though shampoo-smell and body musk endear
the undone hours even more, and on
the bedding flipped by bodies now withdrawn,
a note. And for a moment you are here
while you are gone.



"covers" --> "bedding" (tku M.) liked bedclothes b/c "clothes" but it diluted the alliteration
"and warm" --> "outside"
"And left" ~-> "scrimption"
v1
While you are gone, the day seems like a year.
The breeze is light and crisp, the sunlight clear
and soft; the moon, obscure. What's going on?
You're just out for a morning walk. It's dawn
and warm. But you are there and I am here.

A clink of tea, a crunch of toast, a smear
of avocado on the plate, austere
yet lush. And left. What message might be drawn
while you are gone ?

Beside the tray, those earrings reappear,
though shampoo-smell and body musk endear
the undone hours even more, and on
the covers flipped by bodies now withdrawn,
a note. And for a moment you are here
while you are gone.

Last edited by Daniel Kemper; 07-07-2020 at 08:18 PM. Reason: test two replacements
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  #2  
Unread 06-28-2020, 01:42 PM
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RCL RCL is offline
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Nice one, Daniel. A genuine love poem. Just passing through but will be back with nits, if found.
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  #3  
Unread 06-28-2020, 03:50 PM
Martin Elster Martin Elster is offline
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I like this rondeau, Daniel. Are you aware, though, that you have an identical rhyme in lines 3 and 12 (on/on)? Also between lines 5 and 14 (here/here). I guess, however, that's intentional.

Last edited by Martin Elster; 06-28-2020 at 03:53 PM.
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  #4  
Unread 06-28-2020, 04:50 PM
David Anthony David Anthony is offline
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Nicely done.
Rondeaus, to me, are the hardest form to write.
The identical rhymes are well-separated and do not bother me.
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  #5  
Unread 06-28-2020, 06:12 PM
Susan McLean Susan McLean is offline
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Daniel, this is well done. If you wish to remove the identity rhymes, you could use "upon" (perhaps with a semicolon before it) instead of "and on" and "near" instead of the last "here."

Susan
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  #6  
Unread 06-28-2020, 08:48 PM
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Tough form, good poem!
RM
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  #7  
Unread 06-28-2020, 10:19 PM
Julie Steiner Julie Steiner is offline
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LOL, the narrator sure responds differently to plates left unwashed than my husband does.

Lovely poem. I noticed the identity rhymes, and would prefer for them to be changed, but it wouldn't bug me much if you didn't.
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Unread 06-29-2020, 07:32 AM
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Daniel Kemper Daniel Kemper is offline
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Hi Ralph - Thanks for the props! Thanks for dropping me a note while passing through. Encouragement is always good.

Mar-tin! Howdy. Hey, I'm glad you liked this rondeau. Regarding identical rhymes - I sill mull them over as a general concept. Here, to some degree, I simply just "ran out of real estate" as it were. Not as many rhymes on those sounds as their might seem at first. At least not that fit in this poem. Nonetheless, I felt when composing this there are two different cases. The here/here has the merit of counterpoint all on it's own so I like it. "You are there and I am here" becomes "you are here".

The (on/on) is another case...

David Anthony - Good morning (here) David! Thank you for the praise. In the middle of composing, I realized I would inevitably paint myself in a corner with the chosen rhymes (early on, thank God), I consciously gave those identical rhymes as much distance as I could.

On identical rhymes: I haven't fully settled a "credo" on them yet. To get dramatic about it right off . To me, they pass the definition of rhyme in every technical sense, so they're "legal". Legality does not always trump sonics though. Every word choice has auditory consequences, doesn't it? I *think* there's added leeway here because the couplets don't use them-- although the repetitious nature of the rondeau mitigates that a great deal. For example, if the 'A' rhyme of a sonnet used the same word as the 'F' rhyme, I'm not sure that's such an offense-- certainly not as much as 'A' -> 'B'. Just thinking out loud.

Hi Susan Thanks I mulled and now am re-mulling "upon". The flow is so changed by it. I worry that what I gain in the common taste for removing identity, I lose in using 'poety' language.

v1
Beside the tray, those earrings reappear, though shampoo-smell and body musk endear the undone hours even more, and on the covers flipped by bodies now withdrawn, a note.

v2
Beside the tray, those earrings reappear, though shampoo-smell and body musk endear the undone hours even more; upon the covers flipped by bodies now withdrawn, a note.

{I almost think it needs a period before 'upon' --it's such a full stop.}

I'm going to study it and mouth the flow a bit. I like working with your suggestion.

Rick Mullin - Thank you Rick! Your comments mean a great deal to me. I study your technique.

Julie Steiner - LOL, the narrator sure responds differently to plates left unwashed than my husband does.

--> Ha! Love it. Note: I tried very hard to "scrub" the sex of the person voicing the poem. It could be the woman or the man speaking it. I think it takes on a certain aura if read as if a woman is speaking. (Aura is too big a word, but I'm running out of time to write before work.)

Lovely poem. --> Thank you very much. I noticed the identity rhymes, and would prefer for them to be changed, but it wouldn't bug me much if you didn't.

On identity rhymes: Theoretically, if you write a long enough poem, you will use one. I muse, therefore, what is the minimum acceptable distance for the ear that is displeased by them? (This bars the argument that might just skim to notice them versus reading out loud/listening to someone read out loud and feeling the actual impact.) I *think* it might be the flip side to how far apart you can place rhymes and have them detected as such. To me, without other auditory supports, that distance is about two intervening lines of Iambic Pentameter. (Presumable different line lengths for different meters.) So, the theory goes, if an identical rhyme happens outside those parameters, it should pass the ear that would otherwise be displeased by it. Just worked this out now as I write, but don't know if it will play in Peoria.
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Unread 06-29-2020, 10:49 AM
Julie Steiner Julie Steiner is offline
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Rhyming the same words ("no" and "here") with homophones that are different parts of speech ("know" and "hear") would be admired, not just tolerated, in Renaissance French; but rhyming "no" and "here" with themselves would be sneered at as too easy.

Fashions change between cultures and over time, though, so there's some flexibility with this. Currently the only rule is "Does it work in this particular poem?"

Personally, I would prefer more variation, at least in theory*, because rhyming the same words with themselves does seem a bit unambitious. But one could argue that that lack of energy and effort suits the narrator's mood of passive waiting for the beloved's return. That's part of why it doesn't bother me all that much.

Other readers (and editors) may perceive it differently, though. And of course poems eventually have to stand on their own, without the poets accompanying them to explain and justify their choices.

*[Edited to say: That said, I think the "here" in the penultimate line--a bit of repetition that sets up the final repetend--really works well, and most people who haven't memorized the recipe for this form would not even realize that you've gone off-recipe there.]

Last edited by Julie Steiner; 06-29-2020 at 01:30 PM.
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  #10  
Unread 06-29-2020, 11:44 PM
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Daniel Kemper Daniel Kemper is offline
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Hi again Julie!

[Renaissance French] [Fashions change] I like the standard as a golden rule: "Does it work in this particular poem?" But one has to be on constant guard against rationalization of what really works and what doesn't. It's so easy to hypnotize yourself in these things.

[more variation][identity rhymes = unambitious] - I confess that I too prefer more variation. Whereas identity rhymes fulfill, in my sense of things, the definition of rhyme perfectly, they do have a particular effect that makes them slightly less appealing, assuming no true effect in place that they highlight.

I don't feel or find the lack of energy or effort that the following sentence assumes. {But one could argue that that lack of energy and effort suits the narrator's mood of passive waiting for the beloved's return. That's part of why it doesn't bother me all that much.} But I agree with your later thoughts that the poem has to stand on its own, not just be after-the-fact justified. If you don't actually feel the mood bent by the identity rhymes, then the author's intent to highlight means little.

*[Edited to say: That said, I think the "here" in the penultimate line--a bit of repetition that sets up the final repetend--really works well, and most people who haven't memorized the recipe for this form would not even realize that you've gone off-recipe there.] --I *think* it's on recipe for a fifteen-line rondeau...

Overall, it's weirdly revelatory that the identity rhyme could be seen as lazy. I had never thought of it that way until now. But if that's the sense conveyed to the audience, then perfect fit to the "rules" or not, I'm going to have to redouble my efforts to avoid them in the future (on/on)--without specific effect (here/here). Of course, the real test is reading in a pub somewhere and seeing what people's faces unconsciously do. If the faces flow, the words are good-- if I see the tell-tale micro-bunching at the corners of the eyes or the momentary un-focusing of the eyes, etc then I know I've blown it.
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