[Andrew Mandelbaum]

No convolutions here, baby. I think her responses and life choices are entirely reasonable and justifiable. I doubt she is anymore handled than you or Jan or I am. I think focus on her, espeicially critical, is suspicious and telling. I think the center is a fairly meaningless term in regards to the choices before us. We can either radically adjust our attitude toward other species or we can continue to remove them from the planet one by one through our commitment to slef interest and confusion regarding economic growth vs. economic health. I don't see any of it simplistically in the sense that we are now all fully immersed in the very thing we need to adjust in a way that will make solutions complex and hard to parse. The center here, where we must jump across the abyss of our own adjustments and systemic immersion or refuse that jump, is a Yevteschenko leap halfway across the abyss.

I have very little faith that the present state of the species is up to the task. I love many of them anyway and will stay in the game as it unfolds.

[Jan Iwaszkiewicz]

This argument really does not belong here.

We are agreed that change is necessary however we need to look at the nature of mankind to create that change. Emotion can be seemingly and comfortably righteous but is often a blinding factor.

Jim and Andrew if you wish to take this further please open a new thread. We agree on most things but it could be salient to keep that discussion going.

We are facing hopefully the start of the aftermath here although fires are still burning and their containment is totally dependent on the vagaries of weather. Flooding rains in Queensland and heavy downpours to the south and huge hail in Melbourne and we have had a couple of millimetres of rain. We are still in the iron grip of drought, drying dams and no feed and of course another hot spell and we are sitting in the tinderbox.

The emotion dies down and bastardry and inertia begin.

We do not know what extinctions have occurred or what impact unprecedented fires of such intensity have had and will have on flora and fauna. We are guessing at its impact on water quality in the catchments. I have friends suffering from the impact of poor air quality.

There has been a massive outpouring of support and money but little is getting to those who need it human nature rears its ugly head once again. We need cold hard thought not breast beating posture.

How many bleeding hearts fought on the fire lines or rescued the wild life or will be there for the slow processes of repair. The answer my friends is ....

[Andrew Mandelbaum]

I do agree with you on all of that last post, Jan. I responded mostly to post #26 but I see maybe you meant it a bit differently than it read. The internet is a silly place in some ways. I just read so much venom directed at that kid lately I get irritated by it. Yeah, wrong thread place for that. Sorry.

I imagine cold hard thought can come only after the political will is somewhat unified and without the profiteers virus but maybe things are different there. Here, hours after disaster, the toxins are unleashed and the rocking back to sleep begins. The majority of the work of keeping the "order" stable is accomplished by the sheer demands of capital and survival needs that allow very few to throw themselves into anything new or helpful without losing their homes or their ability to feed/care for their loved ones. Again, hopefully it will prove other where you are.