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  #11  
Unread 04-07-2014, 12:56 AM
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John Whitworth John Whitworth is offline
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Perhaps one definition of Art would be the taking of great pains to produce an astounding result! And another might be jamming down any old thing and taking the money.That would include Damian Hirst and... oh you know.
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  #12  
Unread 04-07-2014, 05:20 AM
Rob Stuart Rob Stuart is offline
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Surely the time and labour involved in producing a sculpture, poem or anything else is immaterial, John. The quality of the outcome is the only criterion by which any work of art should be judged. Would your favourite poem (whatever that may be) be any less of a masterpiece if you discovered that it had been tossed off in five minutes?

I'm going to infuriate you all further by being the one dissenting voice regarding this poem. It has a certain charm, I grant you, but as poetry it sucks. It's hopelessly tricksy and contrived. What is the point of that self-imposed constraint of making the image from words containing an 'i'? A classic example something being superficially impressive not because it's done well, but because it's done at all.

Last edited by Rob Stuart; 04-07-2014 at 05:24 AM.
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  #13  
Unread 04-07-2014, 06:28 AM
Roger Slater Roger Slater is offline
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I doubt that anyone here thinks that the poem is top-notch "as poetry," Rob, but that's not the point. If the poem had been presented alone as simply a poem, without any mention of its origins, it would be nothing special. But that's not how it was presented. Admittedly, the accomplishment would be even more extraordinary if it were a great poem in its own right. Imagine if we discovered that "Ode to a Nightingale" were actually a perfect anagram of the opening scene of "Hamlet," for example. I don't really see the point of asking what the "point" is.
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  #14  
Unread 04-07-2014, 06:50 AM
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John Whitworth John Whitworth is offline
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There will be time and labour somewhere, Rob. Whistler said something apposite here though I can't remember it exactly. Bach might write something quite quickly, but there would be a lifetime's knowledge behind it. Rimbaud is the only genuine example I can think of of the contrary. Keats is not. His later stuff is much better than the earlier. And he gave his whole short life to poetry.
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  #15  
Unread 04-07-2014, 08:37 AM
Roger Slater Roger Slater is offline
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I think what makes this anagram so remarkable for me isn't just that he took the time to do it, and that he had the skill to pull it off, but that he somehow had the faith that it could be done and it was worth the considerable effort of finding out if he was right. For all he knew, he would work for dozens of hours only to discover that the tower would collapse before he could complete it. Faith and skill are two of the hallmarks of any art, and both qualities are here in abundance.
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  #16  
Unread 04-07-2014, 08:51 AM
Martin Parker Martin Parker is offline
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I reckon this sort of task is somewhat less worthwhile than picking fluff from one's navel.
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  #17  
Unread 04-07-2014, 02:22 PM
Martin Elster Martin Elster is offline
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Basically, it's like doing a difficult puzzle or math problem. And when it comes off, it can be astounding.
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  #18  
Unread 04-09-2014, 09:07 PM
Graham King Graham King is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Slater View Post
I think what makes this anagram so remarkable for me isn't just that he took the time to do it, and that he had the skill to pull it off, but that he somehow had the faith that it could be done and it was worth the considerable effort of finding out if he was right. For all he knew, he would work for dozens of hours only to discover that the tower would collapse before he could complete it. Faith and skill are two of the hallmarks of any art, and both qualities are here in abundance.
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Originally Posted by Martin Elster View Post
Basically, it's like doing a difficult puzzle or math problem. And when it comes off, it can be astounding.
Yes to you both... and a question... are such feats inventions, or discoveries? I know myself, sometimes when a pome of mine comes together, there can be a feeling of having stumbled upon something pre-existent - in potential. Like the statue waiting to be exposed from within the rock. Is the subconscious, attuned to innate possibilities in the material at hand, directing the conscious mind to pay attention and effort to accomplish that realization... to make the implicit, explicit?
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  #19  
Unread 04-09-2014, 09:10 PM
Graham King Graham King is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Parker View Post
I reckon this sort of task is somewhat less worthwhile than picking fluff from one's navel.
I've read somewhere in this sphere that navel fluff may be spun into a thread that then serves usefully in the daily flossing of one's nostrils.

So, quite a worthwhile task really...
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  #20  
Unread 04-10-2014, 12:19 AM
Martin Elster Martin Elster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Parker View Post
I reckon this sort of task is somewhat less worthwhile than picking fluff from one's navel.
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Originally Posted by Graham King View Post
I've read somewhere in this sphere that navel fluff may be spun into a thread that then serves usefully in the daily flossing of one's nostrils.
Perhaps this entire "thread" itself has been spun from the navel fluff of all of us D & A participants.

Last edited by Martin Elster; 04-10-2014 at 12:23 AM.
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