[Quincy Lehr]

TradCath death cult insanity. Who cares if they publish poetry? This garbage kills people. Plus, their hard-on for Sohrab Ahmari has taken them in an increasingly phalangist direction more generally.

https://www.firstthings.com/web-excl...g-the-shutdown

[Aaron Novick]

"Churches should literally murder their members" is some god tier dumbfuckery even by First Things standards.

[RCL]

Wow! That's the most idiotic take I've seen yet. Almost quit at paragraph 4.

[Roger Slater]

This particular garbage doesn't kill anyone, since it's so stupid that no one will be influenced by it. Apparently, we're supposed to follow the Nazi example of keeping kids in school even during tragedy? Bizarre. And how foolish of anyone to suggest that "Life in this world is the only thing that matters." What we really want is for our government to prepare us for the next world, apparently.

Still, I could publish in FT if this were the extent of their absurdity, since it's not directing hateful bigotry at any oppressed class of people. They have enough stuff that does just that, however, so I take a pass on contributing to their enterprise.

[Aaron Novick]

I disagree with your assessment that this doesn't kill people. The right-wing misinformation machine, which has been working overtime w/r/t the coronavirus, absolutely does, in a quite literal sense, kill people. We can't know how to parcel out those deaths to particular instances, sure, but this article is part of a phenomenon that is increasing covid's death toll, and I don't think it's unfair in the slightest to say that it will be responsible for people's deaths.

[Mark McDonnell]

Obviously, there are serious conversations to be had regarding the length and severity of the shutdown, mainly how to ensure that people forced out of work have enough to live on and jobs to go back to when it's over. This is the stupidest take on it imaginable. Paragraph 4 made me emit an involuntary noise of exasperated despair. Slightly encouragingly, many of the comments under the article seem to disagree with the writer, and lots of them are from Catholics. Many who disagree do so whilst saying other, equally nutty if not quite as dangerously stupid things. But still…

Aren't Christians supposed to be all about the family? Well, now's their chance to spend lots of time with them, whether they like it or not. And I'm sure you can pray to God, if that's your thing, while lying in the bath. If he is up there, I'm guessing he won't mind just this once.

I think private contemplation of the possibility of the divine is one of the things that makes life worth living. And it is to organised religion what the tobacco plant is to a pack of cigarettes. The former is beautiful and natural and inevitable. The latter is man-made, packaged into many beguiling brands, some more dangerous than others but none of them good for us. We cling to it unthinkingly because our parents or people we admire did it and soon we’ve convinced ourselves we need it. And despite being imbued with some cultural cachet and nostalgic mystique it's thankfully becoming much less fashionable as more people realise how unhealthy it is.

Edit: I say this as someone with nothing against smokers or the religious. Indeed, I've been both and know the attractions.

[Jayne Osborn]

Someone always coins a new word to suit whatever occasion or situation currently prevails... like Brexit, Megxit, for example.

The latest - and best ever, IMO - is Covidiots.
There are lots of them about, unfortunately!!

Jayne

[Andrew Frisardi]

It seems worth mentioning that the reaction of Catholics as well as nearly everybody else against Reno’s article has been intense on Twitter. People reject it outright, just as most people (I hope) are rejecting Trump’s equally idiotic push to “get back to normal” by Easter. It’s a question of delusional vs. real. Quincy's phrase “TradCath death cult insanity” is the plain truth. As one Twitter commentator put it, the Reno article shows that traditionalist Catholics are more into pseudo-martyrdom than witnessing Christ.

As for publishing in First Things, as I’ve stated here before, the only reason I ever send out poems for publication anywhere is because I think they might be useful or pleasurable to some readers. I can hear people on this thread doubting that good people would actually read FT. But, though I have no interest in reading it myself (I only read literary and arts mags), there actually are readers of it who are a lot nicer and more conscientious than Reno. Anyone who has enjoyed visiting the Sistine Chapel in Rome knows that artists can radically disagree with their patrons or hosts. Michelangelo had some criminally nasty employers in the popes, yet we’re glad he did it anyway. (OK, comparing my slight production to Michelangelo’s is delusional as well, but you get the drift.)

[Max Goodman]

Readers are likely to assume that contributors share a journal's politics, particularly if those politics are extreme and obvious. The exception would be if the contribution itself makes disagreement clear. Having ignorantly submitted where I never should have, I know that I get no pleasure out of reaching readers through a venue that makes me look as though I share ideas I find distasteful.

[Jim Moonan]

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What is the intelligent response to such nuked-brain death mongering? Engage them? Ignore them? Ridicule them? Disarm them with reality? No anger, no seething, scathing retort will do any good. Let it be. Anyway, it’s the man not not the mag that should be targeted. His dangerous stupidity will go away. Their numbers, slowly, shrink, I think.

Social media’s potential to democratize the world is at present a double-edged sword that can be at least dulled on one edge by taking advantage of moments like this to expose examples of their stupidity and how it leads to death. Here’s one such example.

Roger, Mark, Thanks for the warning about paragraph 4 — Otherwise, I would not have made it to paragraph 6 which is where the whole argument falls apart into false narrative. Unless the social distancing being practiced encouraged/mandated by local, state and federal leaders becomes permanent new norm, when eased as the threat recedes, is mostly likely to release a pent-up demand for, appreciation of, and a more intelligent and sober way of physically interacting as a society. Things will not be the same, but not because of any damage done to our social fabric (it is always being torn and repaired. We wear a shabby coat), but because things will be better. [Deleted]

(Btw, Trump is essentially in concert with this article. His premise/twit-mantra is, “We don’t want the cure to be worse than the disease.” and, “We can do two things at once.” (where's the 'don't throw out the baby with the bathwater'?) It's persuasive to those who can’t think on their own and need someone to lead them through their narrow, bigoted views. A madman (see paragraph 2)is all he has ever been. Straight out of the ‘50’s. It still works, though not for much longer… vote.

Btw, I don’t think you’d hear Pope Francis endorsing this kind of trash.
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