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Old 07-12-2018, 08:51 PM
Martin Rocek's Avatar
Martin Rocek Martin Rocek is offline
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Hi Julie,
you of course know so much more about music than I do! How do you hear "Dǎbel" ("Devil")--to me it is clear that the stress is on the first syllable, whether or not it is the downbeat or the upbeat. Similarly for "Mámu"; am I hearing it incorrectly?

By the way, did you write down the music yourself? It is different from the published version--I attach a version of that. What software did you use?

I have four syllables in obedience and three in allegiance; when I sing along, allegiance does give me problems.

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  #12  
Old 07-12-2018, 09:07 PM
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Julie Steiner Julie Steiner is offline
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YOU HAVE SHEET MUSIC? AAaaargh--I was just trying to pick it out by ear, without a piano, using Finale music publishing software (which I do not recommend, by the way--very $$$$$$, and they have a really lousy attitude toward their customers, too).

I'll look at yours and will update mine accordingly.
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Old 07-15-2018, 08:22 PM
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Julie Steiner Julie Steiner is offline
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I'll just try to record myself singing it--that should make it easier to tell if we're hearing the rhythms the same way or not. Maybe tomorrow.

It's possible for syncopation to stress a syllable on the offbeat. And since we've run into this same disagreement on so many Kryl songs by now, that seems to be something characteristic of Kryl. I'm still not convinced that those patterns work as well in English as they do in Czech, though.

Would you mind scanning the Czech for me, Martin? Kryl's sung pronunciation leaves me uncertain which syllables would be stressed in spoken pronunciation.

Last edited by Julie Steiner; 07-15-2018 at 08:27 PM.
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:49 PM
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Martin Rocek Martin Rocek is offline
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Hi Julie,
I can try to write the scan, though I get confused and may get it wrong. Here is the basic rule (from wiki/Czech_Language/Pronunciation):

Quote:
In Czech, the primary stress is always on the first syllable of a unit (usually identical to a word). Of course, there are a few exceptions. The exceptions are:

Monosyllabic prepositions form a unit with following words (if the following word is not longer than three syllables). The stress is placed on the preposition: e.g. ˈPraha (Prague) --> ˈdo Prahy (to Prague). This does not apply to long words, e.g. ˈna ˈkoloˌnádě (on the (spa) walk).
Some monosyllabic words (e.g. mi (me), ti (you), to (it), se, si (oneself), jsem (am), jsi (are), etc.) are clitics — they are not stressed and form a unit with preceding words. A clitic cannot be the first word in a sentence, because it requires a preceding word to form a unit with. Example: ˈNapsal jsem ti ˈten ˈdopis = I have written the letter to you.
For long words, there is a secondary stressing of the syllables, which is placed on the odd syllables. This offers a distinct cadence to the Czech language. ˈNej.krás.ˌněj.ší = The most beautiful.

Stress in Czech denotes boundaries between words, but does not distinguish word meanings. It also has no influence on the quality or quantity of vowels. Vowels are not reduced in unstressed syllables and both long and short vowels can occur in either stressed or unstressed syllables.
So I will just try to these rules and my ear to give you a scansion:

Nad moz-kem poslušnost**
a nad rozumem ra
a správpříslušnost
je víc, než v bora,
mu jsme zapřeli
a brácha zapřel tu,
někdo se odstře
a jiným zlámem hnátu,
Ďábel nás hnal
a šli jsme jako ovce,
kažz nás znal,
že zvěř se stane z lovce,
každý však šel
a na chytrost měl štempl,
náš cíl se skvěl,
jsi proti? Pak jsi lempl!
In some cases, I am following my ear rather than the rules. I should
probably check with a Czech friend of mine who teaches among other things poetry
.
**This is my best attempt to follow the rules; to my ear, I could just as well say:
Nad mozkem poslušnost


Should I do the second verse as well?

Last edited by Martin Rocek; 07-17-2018 at 11:42 PM. Reason: I tried to improve the scansion--I'm still not sure it is right.
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:54 PM
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Martin Rocek Martin Rocek is offline
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Here is my attempt to rewrite the first four lines to improve the flow and the fit to the music:

Brainless obedience,
with faith instead of reason,
and true subservience
can serve for every season,


What do you think? It is only slightly less true to the original IMO.

"zapřít" is not a particularly informal word--Kryl was famous for his sophisticated use of language. Also, "renounce" is not "denounce", so "ratted on" isn't really right.

I like your point about the ending--Aaron had a similar point; how about:
Keep marching on! Keep marching on! Keep marching on!
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