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  #21  
Old 11-02-2018, 08:25 AM
Andrew Szilvasy Andrew Szilvasy is online now
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People seemed to have forgiven the Keating 5 bit because of McCain-Feingold. Perhaps--perhaps!--that's a fair trade.

Selecting Palin is a direct line to Trump.
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  #22  
Old 11-02-2018, 08:31 AM
James Brancheau James Brancheau is offline
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I agree. I watched Game Change not too long ago and that seems to predict that direct line. It was my understanding (partly from that movie) that he wanted Lieberman. Not a big fan of his either, but it would have been a bold move crossing party lines. And almost anything is better than Palin. Almost.
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  #23  
Old 11-02-2018, 12:01 PM
Erik Olson Erik Olson is offline
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I do not even necessarily like him myself, but simply think it not fair or factual to say he never stood up to Trump when he did on these occasions mentioned in the articles to name a few. That is all.

Last edited by Erik Olson; 11-02-2018 at 12:07 PM.
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  #24  
Old 11-02-2018, 12:06 PM
Andrew Szilvasy Andrew Szilvasy is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Olson View Post
I do not even necessarily like him myself, but think it not fair or factual to say he never stood up to Trump when he did on at least these occasions mentioned in the articles.
I mean, that's true, which is why I can't seem to find anyone in this thread claiming this.
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  #25  
Old 11-02-2018, 12:09 PM
Erik Olson Erik Olson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Novick View Post
McCain didn't stand up to Trump.
If you must know. He did as a matter of record. If I were the claimant of this, I would think it sufficient, for the sake of veracity, to simply add enough.

Last edited by Erik Olson; 11-02-2018 at 12:37 PM.
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  #26  
Old 11-02-2018, 12:56 PM
James Brancheau James Brancheau is offline
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The thumbs down was a big fucking deal, to steal a little from Joe B. It was morally responsible. It's a low bar these days, but hey, that was important.
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  #27  
Old 11-02-2018, 02:09 PM
Erik Olson Erik Olson is offline
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True, it is a low bar nowadays. As far as Republicans are concerned, a very low bar indeed, he was a cut above the rest insofar as he showed himself capable of considering each issue on its merits and of taking moral responsibility; even if that meant defiance of the ideological lockstep of his own party, he did defy. I think that is something.

Last edited by Erik Olson; 11-02-2018 at 02:20 PM.
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  #28  
Old 11-02-2018, 02:19 PM
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Aaron Novick Aaron Novick is offline
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I agree that if you lower the bar to the point where it’s literally on the floor, McCain absentmindedly stepped over it a few times.
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  #29  
Old 11-02-2018, 02:26 PM
Erik Olson Erik Olson is offline
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Why absentmindedly? Does inattentive or forgetful of what one knows or to do what one should not a contradiction in terms make with considering each issue on its merits and taking moral responsibility? What allowed McCain to remember, not conveniently forget so as to appease the ideological table-keepers, what he knew and to do what he should is the reverse of absent-mindedness. He would be absent-minded on the occasion wherein he failed to cross the line for what was right by conveniently forgetting what rightness required. But when he did step over, it was rather in mindfulness than absent-mindedness. I do not mean to sing a fanfare but, as a fan of fair, I am loath to deny that which is only fair to any, even to whom I would not vote for in a hundred years, and there’s an end on’t.

Last edited by Erik Olson; 11-03-2018 at 05:03 PM.
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  #30  
Old 11-02-2018, 02:28 PM
James Brancheau James Brancheau is offline
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So saving heath care doesn't rank high on your list, Aaron? For me, it's a big issue, so could influence my reaction/opinion.
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