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  #11  
Unread 09-25-2019, 11:18 AM
John Isbell John Isbell is offline
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211 House votes for impeachment at last count, 218 needed. I think things do not look good for Barr or Giuliani either, as you note.
OTOH, Iíll be astonished if the Senate votes to impeach. Though Romney is making interesting noises.

Cheers,
John
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  #12  
Unread 09-25-2019, 11:24 AM
Roger Slater Roger Slater is offline
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I'd be astonished, as well, but it's possible there won't be any real choice once the entire report gets aired and a few witnesses galvanize the country with dramatic testimony proving that Trump is not just corrupt but crazy. This offense is not just as serious as any that went before, but far simpler to follow than the whole Mueller thing and therefore more likely to be accepted by the public and less susceptible to obfuscation.
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  #13  
Unread 09-25-2019, 11:30 AM
Roger Slater Roger Slater is offline
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This analysis in the NYT highlights how the Senate is now showing signs of coming on board at last.
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  #14  
Unread 09-25-2019, 11:58 AM
John Isbell John Isbell is offline
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If the GOP wall of denial yields, it'll be edifying to see them scramble to be, let's say on the right side of history. It's an existential choice for them, since if they get it wrong, they're voted out. Or possibly prosecuted.

Cheers,
John
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  #15  
Unread 09-25-2019, 03:19 PM
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Allen Tice Allen Tice is offline
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Post removed.

Last edited by Allen Tice; 09-28-2019 at 02:27 PM.
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  #16  
Unread 09-25-2019, 04:07 PM
John Isbell John Isbell is offline
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Welcome back, Allen! I see you've decided to post another comment here after all. You are more than welcome to say there's nothing to see here - it's a free country. I doubt many other commenters will be going to bed, though, as you propose, since it is mid-afternoon at present in the New World. So I'm afraid you'll just have to deal with other people having and posting their own opinions, much as you posted yours.

Cheers,
John
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  #17  
Unread 09-25-2019, 04:19 PM
Max Goodman Max Goodman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen Tice View Post
not going to happen. Period.
Still a big deal. Democrats officially saying this behavior is wrong. Republicans forced to go on the record.
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  #18  
Unread 09-25-2019, 05:50 PM
Roger Slater Roger Slater is offline
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It's interesting that Allen thinks so little of the integrity of Republican senators that he concludes that no amount of proof that Trump has acted criminally, betrayed his oath, or violated norms that Republicans themselves pretended until recently to hold dear, will cause them not to whore themselves to their corrupt boss and cast a vote to hold him accountable. But even if he is right, that doesn't mean that those in the House with a modicum of integrity shouldn't proceed to do their job of holding the president accountable by the only means available to them, which is impeachment.

But I don't think we can rule out the possibility that, after we learn what happened in actual hearings with witnesses, and after Trump's illegal obstruction of Congress is reversed and the House can do its job and make its case, there may be Republican senators who will finally make the cynical calculation that it's time to pretend to have integrity. After all, it was a unamimous Senate vote calling upon Trump to release the whistleblower report, so an ounce of shame, or a milligram at least, seems to be within their ability to imitate.
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  #19  
Unread 09-25-2019, 05:54 PM
John Isbell John Isbell is offline
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Hi Roger,

I too look forward to watching the GOP calculus in action.
I know more than one Trump voter who says of Trump, in essence, "boys will be boys." Allen, my impression is that your ALL CAP comments in this thread can be read in much the same way. Hey, it's a point of view.

Cheers,
John
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  #20  
Unread 09-25-2019, 10:23 PM
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Allen Tice Allen Tice is offline
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Post removed.

Last edited by Allen Tice; 09-28-2019 at 02:27 PM.
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