[John Isbell]

... on the other hand, Leonard Cohen wrote "Hallelujah," which a lot of people cover:

Leonard Cohen - Hallelujah (Audio) - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttEMYvpoR-k

With all good wishes,
John

[Martin Elster]

This thread reminded me of a poem that appeared in The Asses of Parnassus by yours truly:

http://assesofparnassus.tumblr.com/p...t-been-visited

[Allen Tice]

Martin, well-published your poem is, but Nemo and I are currently visiting Earth and bring you greetings from Yoda, who is now 8 billion years old, and doing well, though a bit arthritic now and then.

[Allen Tice]

On a more serious note, Richard Meyer's link (post #5) is worth another look. Inside that link is a further link about the multiple times multicellular organisms have developed on earth. It can settle a lot of popular discussion on evolution: once a functional reproducing cell develops, several can combine for mutual benefit.

Back to Meyer's main link. Of course, my opinions are those of an ignoromnibus (I hope that isn't a seriously erroneous Latin form ), but I found Possibility 4 and Possibility 10 meaningful. (I do like Possibility 10, but think the examples given might be too restrictive.) Here they are:

Possibility 4) There are scary predator civilizations out there, and most intelligent life knows better than to broadcast any outgoing signals and advertise their location. This is an unpleasant concept and would help explain the lack of any signals being received by the SETI satellites. It also means that we might be the super naive newbies who are being unbelievably stupid and risky by ever broadcasting outward signals. There’s a debate going on currently about whether we should engage in METI (Messaging to Extraterrestrial Intelligence—the reverse of SETI) or not, and most people say we should not. Stephen Hawking warns, “If aliens visit us, the outcome would be much as when Columbus landed in America, which didn’t turn out well for the Native Americans.” Even Carl Sagan (a general believer that any civilization advanced enough for interstellar travel would be altruistic, not hostile) called the practice of METI “deeply unwise and immature,” and recommended that “the newest children in a strange and uncertain cosmos should listen quietly for a long time, patiently learning about the universe and comparing notes, before shouting into an unknown jungle that we do not understand.” Scary. [footnote]

Possibility 10) We’re completely wrong about our reality. There are a lot of ways we could just be totally off with everything we think. The universe might appear one way and be something else entirely, like a hologram....

[Martin Elster]

Hi Allen,

I’m glad to hear that you’ve come to earth, and if you go back, please give my regards to Yoda.

I read the whole article about the Fermi Paradox. This is not the first time I have encountered it. In fact I have heard numerous talks by Michio Kaku, and have read some of his books. I’m also familiar with Type I, II and III civilizations. I’ve even met some robots from the future.

Anyway, I found those possibilities intriguing, especially No. 10. I’ve heard about the hologram theory of the universe. I’m starting to read now about the future of AI. Here is the article I found.

https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/01/artif...olution-1.html

[Allen Tice]

Martin, I likewise have come across these topics before (paradox, I,II,III, Kaku), but my interest in things related to holographic physical universes slowed a lot with the development of Bekenstein's idea that the information content of a black hole varied with the area of its event horizon surface. That, though almost intuitive, was enough. The more obvious apparent consequences of further ramifications weren't worth (to me) the kilowatt hours. I am a pissant dilettante at best. And I always lie to strangers.

Frankly, AI worries me a lot, and I try to avoid headaches.

Yoda has replied to my collect-call signal with a QDPTBFM40B-gramme*, and says "You are thanked. Be well." The messages were not cheap, but he has made many good investments.

* QuantumDecoherencePseudoTime-BasedFM40Baud-gramme.

I, too, say "Be well".

[Martin Elster]

About a year and a half ago I read a book by Seth Lloyd called “Programming the Universe.”

Reaction

Reviewer Corey S. Powell of The New York Times writes:

In the space of 221 dense, frequently thrilling and occasionally exasperating pages, … tackles computer logic, thermodynamics, chaos theory, complexity, quantum mechanics, cosmology, consciousness, sex and the origin of life — throwing in, for good measure, a heartbreaking afterword that repaints the significance of all that has come before. The source of all this intellectual mayhem is the kind of Big Idea so prevalent in popular science books these days. Lloyd, a professor of mechanical engineering at M.I.T., takes as his topic the fundamental workings of the universe…, which he thinks has been horribly misunderstood. Scientists have looked at it as a ragtag collection of particles and fields while failing to see what it is as a majestic whole: an enormous computer.[1]

In an interview with Wired magazine, Lloyd writes:

everything in the universe is made of bits. Not chunks of stuff, but chunks of information — ones and zeros. … Atoms and electrons are bits. Atomic collisions are "ops." Machine language is the laws of physics. The universe is a quantum computer.[2]

Gilbert Taylor, writing in Booklist of the American Library Association, said that the book:

offers brilliantly clarifying explanations of the "bit," the smallest unit of information; how bits change their state; and how changes-of-state can be registered on atoms via quantum-mechanical qualities such as "spin" and "superposition." Putting readers in the know about quantum computation, Lloyd then informs them that it may well be the answer to physicists' search for a unified theory of everything. Exploring big questions in accessible, comprehensive fashion, Lloyd's work is of vital importance to the general-science audience.[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programming_the_Universe

[Allen Tice]

Martin, what I'm about to say doesn't prove or disprove anything in your last post, but it surely could impress one that here is one further example of Meyer's (and various others') observation that explanatory mechanisms that smart people use to simplify puzzles so often parallel the newest shiny technologies. Computer simulation.

What would be the moral consequences if this were true? (Dare I mention morality? Does anyone but me still ask what that word means!?)

And what difference would it make for us??

Occam's razor.

[Martin Elster]

Hi Allen,

Here are 5 links I think you would be very interested in seeing. They all relate to this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7rYRGbsMW0

https://www.express.co.uk/news/weird...deGrasse-Tyson

Neil Tyson talks about UFOs and the argument from ignorance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BRDCxNEuyg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC49HUhibFQ

Neil deGrasse Tyson: Where Are the Aliens?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7ctfSIzeFI

And here is another link on the topic (which I just found).

Neil deGrasse Tyson - Where are the aliens?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQrfh7PyrbM

By the way, have you read any of the comments at the bottom of that article Richard Meyer linked to? I found many of them compelling.

[Allen Tice]

Martin and all, I think the time has come for me step back from what has become almost a two-person chat on Eratosphere TV. Others are invited to develop their points of view without my interference.