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Unread 07-02-2018, 06:08 PM
Julie Steiner's Avatar
Julie Steiner Julie Steiner is offline
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
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I don't see anything blasphemous about about using the word "rhyme" as a metaphor for things that don't fit the textbook description of rhyme.

No metaphor is literally true.
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Unread 07-02-2018, 06:16 PM
Jayne Osborn's Avatar
Jayne Osborn Jayne Osborn is offline
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No one said it was blasphemous, Julie.
(Gosh, and I thought you were even more literal than I am!)
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Unread 07-02-2018, 07:23 PM
Julie Steiner's Avatar
Julie Steiner Julie Steiner is offline
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Oh, I'm literal, but I can still construct straw men with the best of 'em.
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Unread 07-02-2018, 07:53 PM
John Isbell John Isbell is online now
Join Date: Mar 2017
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To me, the one advantage of the term 'conceptual rhyme', as opposed to, say, semantic echo, is that it suggests the echo will occur at the end of each line, a thing worth pointing out. Mark, you've done that in your sample, but I've not seen it mentioned yet in this thread. There's a long tradition of rhyming at the end stops which lends weight to this somewhat sloppy - or perhaps shorthand - borrowing of the term, IMO.
In other words, I'm not a big fan of the term conceptual rhyme.

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Unread 07-02-2018, 11:59 PM
Mark McDonnell Mark McDonnell is offline
Join Date: May 2016
Location: England
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Yes. If this 'established poetic technique' were something that happened where we would otherwise normally expect to find rhyme, ie in some sort of pattern, usually at the end of lines, (as in mine and Walter's little snippets and Alicia's poem that Woody linked to) then I'd be more than happy with the phrase. I was disappointed to find no evidence of it in Zapruder's poems, which confirmed my original suspicion that he was talking like a pseud. Though he has given us some fun on D and A.

Julie - haha

Last edited by Mark McDonnell; 07-03-2018 at 12:41 AM.
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Unread 07-05-2018, 10:18 AM
Max Goodman Max Goodman is offline
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
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Whatever we may think of the term "conceptual rhyme," we all seem to understand what is meant by it. Maybe that's because the word "rhyme" at the very least rhymes with the concept it is being used to convey. Personally, I like the term. It strikes me as poetic, telling it, as Dickisnon would say, slant.

I can't say I've yet found Zapruder's conceptual rhyming to resonate, but conceptual rhyming interests me. It's likely, because most words connect in various ways to a multitude of concepts, that no two poets will conceptually rhyme identically.

More broadly, Zapruder's book (of which conceptual rhyming is discussed in only one chapter) has helped me experience free verse, which I've always regarded as the Emperor's New Clothes. (I'm not surprised to see Jan use that analogy about conceptual rhyme.) I've been wise enough not to shout that the Emperor is naked, but I've avoided claiming to see the duds. (Most importantly, since it can't matter much to anyone else what I do or don't see, I've avoided making that claim to myself.) I still don't see a lot of them, and, just as most attempts at any art form fail, in most cases they probably aren't there, but Zapruder has helped me see some clothes where I never saw them before.
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