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  #11  
Old 11-01-2017, 03:58 PM
John Isbell John Isbell is offline
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I think he would need to order Rosenstein to fire him, risking a new Saturday Night Massacre. But yes, he can order Mueller fired.
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  #12  
Old 11-01-2017, 06:00 PM
Roger Slater Roger Slater is offline
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I believe I also heard that he could simply rescind all the regulations about who gets to fire whom (since they are executive branch resolutions, basically an internal matter) and then fire Mueller directly if he wanted to. Most pundits seem to think he wouldn't do that, since it would be just the excuse needed for Congress to shift against him and impeach, but if the evidence is truly mounting and he concludes he is doomed anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if he tried it as a last act of desperation.
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  #13  
Old 11-01-2017, 11:18 PM
Max Goodman Max Goodman is offline
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As long as Republicans control Congress, it's up to them whether to impeach or not, and so far they haven't shown any interest in doing that regardless of what lines he crosses.

And that may be for the best. Defeating Trump in 2020 isn't a slam dunk, but it looks easier than defeating Pence, and any administration of the current crop of Republicans is a danger to the country.
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  #14  
Old 11-02-2017, 03:03 AM
John Isbell John Isbell is offline
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It's a sad thought that, even if proof comes out that the Trump campaign colluded with Putin to steal the election, the constitution only allows for Pence to replace Trump. One election thief would replace the other: the theft still pays off. And as you say, Max, Pence could easily win in 2020, given the GOP base and their grasp of ethics. Not to mention patriotism. Black days we live in.

Cheers,
John
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  #15  
Old 11-02-2017, 07:33 AM
Brian Allgar Brian Allgar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Isbell View Post
It's a sad thought that, even if proof comes out that the Trump campaign colluded with Putin to steal the election, the constitution only allows for Pence to replace Trump. One election thief would replace the other: the theft still pays off. And as you say, Max, Pence could easily win in 2020, given the GOP base and their grasp of ethics. Not to mention patriotism. Black days we live in.

Cheers,
John
Unless Mueller's investigation brings down Pence as well, which is by no means impossible. But who would be next in line? Ugh!!!
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  #16  
Old 11-02-2017, 08:39 AM
Roger Slater Roger Slater is offline
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Pence may or may not be as bad as Trump from a policy perspective, but I don't think that should make us less willing and eager to get rid of Trump. This isn't an election in which we are asked to vote for either Trump or Pence. Let's deal with one embarrassing crook at a time. Trump is now the president and he is completely and utterly unfit for the job, so he has to go. Period. He doesn't get a free pass just because his VP is also disgusting.
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  #17  
Old 11-02-2017, 08:51 AM
John Isbell John Isbell is offline
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Very true. Let political calculation not get in the way of ethics and justice: Pence's fitness or unfitness for office is its own separate issue. I simply find the prospect depressing, since I suspect the whole campaign was complicit in treason.
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  #18  
Old 11-02-2017, 10:01 AM
Roger Slater Roger Slater is offline
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I think, though, that if Trump goes down in disgrace and in flames, Pence would not come into office with a lot of support or regard, and the public would view his presidency as somewhat illegitimate. So he probably wouldn't get much done. It would not be like when Ford came into office, when most people felt relieved to have such a basically nice guy take over.
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  #19  
Old 11-02-2017, 11:58 AM
John Riley John Riley is offline
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I wonder if the country would react to Mueller's firing the way it reacted to the Saturday Night Massacre? Would there be the same shocked reaction?

And we have to remember the Congress was firmly in Democratic hands during Watergate and even then it took Howard Baker and Hugh Scott and Goldwater to go to Nixon and tell him it was over. Which Republicans have the same integrity and are in a powerful enough position for their words to matter? McCain while he is still alive I guess. Can't think of another.
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  #20  
Old 11-02-2017, 12:33 PM
Max Goodman Max Goodman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Isbell View Post
Let political calculation not get in the way of ethics and justice
Ethics and justice only work if they're respected by both sides. The right suppresses votes, and stoops to ridiculous levels of gerrymandering and obstruction (see their behavior vis. the Supreme Court and President Obama's other judicial nominations) to grab and hold power. That's why, though most Americans want climate action, a tax system that's fairer for working people, and other "leftist" policies, we continue to move away from these things.

As long as we'd rather do the right the thing than implement the policies our country needs, policy will continue to be set by those who don't care about doing the right thing.

We can't afford to keep bringing ethics and a desire for justice to this knife fight.
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