Eratosphere Forums - Metrical Poetry, Free Verse, Fiction, Art, Critique, Discussions Able Muse - a review of poetry, prose and art

Forum Left Top

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 08-06-2018, 11:31 AM
Allen Tice's Avatar
Allen Tice Allen Tice is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY USA
Posts: 4,048
Default

Aaron P, apotropaic name for your first son, eh? Good luck to him. He might change it to Boris Petrarch Pindar.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 08-06-2018, 02:40 PM
Martin Elster Martin Elster is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Connecticut, USA
Posts: 5,493
Default

Ann, I suppose my initial confusion in S1 was that I didn’t know, when I first read the poem, about the news of the poisoning of the Skripals (a despicable act, to say the least). Now, realizing that Salisbury is the location of their house, and is also the town of the Victoria and Albert museum where the Constable painting is. But that’s after I had read all the comments.

Also, as you already know, “we” was confusing, too, because I didn’t think of “the Attenborough whisper.”

I would not assume “knob” means anything X-rated, because of the context of the story. In any case, it’s way better than “handle.” By the way, I couldn’t help laughing while reading your description of how you decided to keep that word, as your puns were growing exponentially.

I look forward to reading your revision of S1.

Last edited by Martin Elster; 08-07-2018 at 02:05 PM. Reason: corrected a typo
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 08-07-2018, 01:43 AM
Ann Drysdale's Avatar
Ann Drysdale Ann Drysdale is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Old South Wales (UK)
Posts: 4,373
Default

Thanks Martin - the V&A is actually in London, but that picture had till now been my go-to definition of Salisbury.

Revision posted.

Last edited by Ann Drysdale; 08-07-2018 at 04:19 AM. Reason: tidying up the post. It needed a paragraph break...
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 08-07-2018, 02:24 AM
John Isbell John Isbell is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: TX
Posts: 3,184
Default

My memory of Salisbury is of the cathedral close and cloisters. The Constable did loom large for me when looking at that heap of stone.

Cheers,
John
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 08-07-2018, 02:41 AM
Ann Drysdale's Avatar
Ann Drysdale Ann Drysdale is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Old South Wales (UK)
Posts: 4,373
Default

John, is yours one of the big Constables, the one in the National, or the one in the Tate (with the rainbow)?

The one in the V&A (in the link Aaron posted) is a working sketch, a step on the way to the great masterpieces. The whole room (with the glass cases now expunged from the poem) is dedicated to the making of "greater" art. That's why I have left in the reference that took Aaron straight to the very picture that I love.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 08-07-2018, 04:33 AM
John Isbell John Isbell is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: TX
Posts: 3,184
Default

Hi Ann,

I think it's the NG one from the Close:

https://www.nga.gov/collection/art-object-page.115.html

Thanks for pointing that out. I'd not followed Aaron's link, and had no idea Constable had at least three versions of the cathedral. I've now looked at them and enjoyed. I also read your latest revision, which seems very elegant, but I do regret a bit the wildness of your original draft. I think sometimes a thing can be too neat and tidy...

Cheers,
John
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 08-07-2018, 06:59 AM
Matt Q Matt Q is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: England, UK
Posts: 2,711
Default

Hi Annie,

So, the poet reads of the novichok poisoning and thinks first of the idyllic beauty of Salisbury past, then the aliveness of the city in the present, then imagines the Skripals at the moment before they are poisoned. The crime is being contrasted to the poet's image of the city as beautiful and alive. But more than this, presumably: there's something specific to the nature of the crime that prompts the reflections. So perhaps the progression is something like past, present, future with nerve agents representing something new and alien, rather than simply a form of deadliness and ugliness that contrasts with the poet's image of the beauty and aliveness of the place. The poet updates her image of Salisbury in the light of this new and strange event, much like the painting is being changed in the poem.

I find like lots to like here, particularly the way that the whole poems is woven into the canvas of the Constable painting, as if the scenes unfold there and the painting, like the poet's image of the city, is being updated by the news of the poisoning. I very much liked the 'arc-sparks' and their later echo in 'sparkle' -- added to which the wonderful "borborygmus", and the half-balanced (in more ways that one) girls teetering on the their high heels.

I think new first line works well to help the reader with what follows, to clue them in. That said, by the time I saw the revision I already knew what the poem was about, so it's hard to judge how much of a clue is needed. Perhaps "this news of Salisbury", would help more, and in terms of sound, would adds 's's to play off the those in "Salisbury".

I am wondering how you pronounce 'Salisbury'. I'd say and generally expect to hear something somewhere like Sals'b'ry (SOLS-bree), which would make your new first line seem more like tetrameter to me. Having grown up in Wiltshire, I wondered if perhaps it is pronounced differently outside the county, but having just listened to a well-spoken BBC announcer, I'd say she does the same.

For what it's worth, on my doubtless limited understanding of prosody, "from a bright knot of teetering jailbait", is a perfectly solid line of IP. I'd understood that in terms of substitutions, a double iamb counts as two iambs. Given the the meaning of "half-balancing on impossible heels", it worked very nicely for me as an unbalanced line of five stresses. I wouldn't change it.

best,

Matt
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 08-07-2018, 08:24 AM
Ann Drysdale's Avatar
Ann Drysdale Ann Drysdale is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Old South Wales (UK)
Posts: 4,373
Default

Thank you, Matt. I have been muttering "Salisbury" to myself like a thing possessed and I do make two syllables of the "bury". Not a deliberate double plonker but a sort of "buh-Ree".

It pleases me to think that it is another of your ilk, the great "Q" himself, who has also played a part in the revision. He it was who first coined the phrase "murder your darlings" to illustrate the need for pruning the things that are important to the writer but not to the work. All that remains now of the mysterious trigger is the word "glass"; the sparkle has been scattered throughout the poem, as you saw and noted.

Incidentally another darling was caught in the crossfire and died without a murmur.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 08-07-2018, 09:16 AM
Matt Q Matt Q is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: England, UK
Posts: 2,711
Default

You mean, "something sticky shining on the knob"? As knob-gags go, it was a good 'un, though, yes, perhaps not entirely at home in this poem
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 08-07-2018, 09:27 AM
Ann Drysdale's Avatar
Ann Drysdale Ann Drysdale is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Old South Wales (UK)
Posts: 4,373
Default

And (to paraphrase Saki) as knob-gags go, it went.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



Forum Right Top
Forum Left Bottom Forum Right Bottom
 
Right Left
Member Login
Forgot password?
Forum LeftForum Right


Forum Statistics:
Forum Members: 7,927
Total Threads: 19,491
Total Posts: 251,857
There are 247 users
currently browsing forums.
Forum LeftForum Right


Forum Sponsor:
Donate & Support Able Muse / Eratosphere
Forum LeftForum Right
Right Right
Right Bottom Left Right Bottom Right

Hosted by ApplauZ Online