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Old 08-22-2018, 10:42 PM
Allen Tice's Avatar
Allen Tice Allen Tice is offline
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Default We are all doomed to go to Hell and be breakfast sausages (false title)

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
xxxxStick With the Best Swerve

What words we have, all round about,
Are insufficient to my doubt
Of Calvin Banger's charming paper
Slamming Epicurus' early caper
That cures Plotinus (poor man, unwary,
Exhaling whey from Plato's dairy).
But that's far out of town.


Changes:
L4 “slamming” for “damning”

————————-

xxxxxxxxxxVersion 2

What words we have, all round about,
Are insufficient to my doubt
Of Calvin Banger's charming paper
Damning Epicurus' caper
That cures Plotinus (poor man, unwary,
Exhaling whey from Plato's dairy).
But that's far out of town.


xxxxxxxxxxxMod 1

What words we have, all round about,
Are insufficient to my doubt
Of Calvin Banger's charming paper
Damning Epicurus' caper
Around Plotinus (poor man, unwary,
Exhaling whey from Plato's dairy).
But that's far out of town.

xxxxxxxxxxOriginal

What words we have, all round about,
Are insufficient to my doubt
Of Calvin Banger's charming paper
Dispraising Epicurus' curly caper
Around Plotinus (poor man, unwary,
Exhaling whey from Plato's dairy).
But that's far out of town.

Previous titles:

xxxxxxxxxxJotting 1
xxxxxxAnonymous Review


xxxxxxx

Last edited by Allen Tice; 08-28-2018 at 04:45 PM. Reason: new title
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Old 08-23-2018, 07:51 AM
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Aaron Novick Aaron Novick is offline
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Allen, I want to like this poem more than I do. It's probably for a niche audience, but I'm at least adjacent to that niche, and I'm not fully invited in. As far as I can tell, "Calvin Banger" is not a real classicist, so I see the N as imagining a paper and then responding to it in the way described in this poem. The paper has something to do with Epicurus' "caper" around Plotinus, which makes the N think of Plotinus himself (the "exhaling whey" line is the poem's strongest moment—love it).

But what is the doubt? Why are the words insufficient to it? Why is the whole scenario "far out of town" and why does it matter? I'm left to guess, and I don't know what the secret key is. So the poem remains, ultimately, private. Charming, but private.

A couple small suggestions regarding craft:

L1: "all round about" starts the poem on a weak note, a stock phrase. I'd try to replace "all round" with something more contentful. "scattered about", "huddled about", etc.

L4: This line has five beats (not a problem in itself) and feels overlong for it (there's the issue). I'd cut "curly". I think the poem's rhythm would be improved by finding a trochaic word to start it, rather than the amphibrachic "dispraising". As it is now, there's a hiccup at the start of the line.
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Old 08-23-2018, 07:58 AM
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Rick Mullin Rick Mullin is online now
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Allen,



For a poem that allows me no entry, I love the exit!


I know where this poem is coming from--I think I've mentioned my statistician/parlor poet uncle. But this has qualities that may eventually make me Google, and I do love the close.


RM
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Old 08-23-2018, 09:16 AM
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Allen Tice Allen Tice is offline
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Aaron N, "all round about" is meant to convey that the words we have are inexact. So maybe I will keep that wording. You are correct that Calvin Banger is a fictional person, whose name is meant to suggest a determinist (Calvinisitic) philosopher who doesn't accept functional free will. Hah, you say perhaps, that's me, at least for the no free-will part. No such thing. Well, well, well. "Banger" is a type of British sausage. I don't know if they are carminative. Banger also points to an explicator of the Big Bang (whom I think of as Waldo, the Big Bang).

Rick, I have given you some lock picks that you can use if you like. Very glad that you like the ending. I do too.

Yes, it's kind of hermetic. A little bird told me that it was well received not too long ago. As for the ASA, that's good to think with.
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Old 08-23-2018, 10:08 AM
Jim Moonan Jim Moonan is offline
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x
The obscureness of this is relative, I think, to the reader's willingness to unlock a dozen or so pun-like, word-associative, referential, poetically phrased pieces of a word puzzle that don't exactly fit together, because words are inexact. Far out!
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Old 08-23-2018, 07:20 PM
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Allen Tice Allen Tice is offline
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Aaron, I apologize because I didn’t give you as much attention as you deserve. Epicurus came long before Plotinus, who was heavily influenced by Plato. Yeats mentions Plotinus as a touchstone, maybe good, maybe inferior. Plotinus sought to become one with “The One”. How dull. No differentiation! Dull, dull. How can a “One” think or even perceive. A humungous Monad. Dullacious in extremis. Plotinus may have acknowledged the quirky atomic swerve of Epicurus somewhere, but my ignorance extends so far that I don’t think he liked that unpredictability. Some modern opinionators are happy with the swerve and stamp their feet and chant “Quant Suff” — invoking quantum theory like a cargo cult cure-all for every large question. And it does work wonderfully well. Except of course with responsibility. That is, are we automatons, mere soft machines acting without consequence, making pretty sand icons that will be erased utterly in the end? I want to emphasize the matter of meaning — and action too — but meaning mostly. Now I’ve gone all wobbly in philosophy. Sorry.

Jim, thanks. Puns aren’t my point, though fun is. Thanks for commenting.

Last edited by Allen Tice; 08-25-2018 at 05:32 PM.
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Old 08-24-2018, 12:03 PM
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Revision posted with "damning" to replace "dispraising", and without "curly".

Last edited by Allen Tice; 08-24-2018 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 08-24-2018, 08:36 PM
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Aaron, Rick, Jim, others,
I have a lingering affection for that extra syllable in L4. It's like a "swerve", perhaps. On the other hand, the directness of the change that drops "curly" and adds "Damning" (Mod 1) drips with a certain power. As Decimus Brutus once later said (not the Brutus, but one of his co-conspirators and also there on the Ides of March in the Senate), "Just put the bit between your teeth, and start talking". Must have been a joke, right? Anyway, which change is better?
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Old 08-25-2018, 09:15 AM
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Allen Tice Allen Tice is offline
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Rick, I tried to PM you, but your mailbox is full. So here in Macy’s 34th Street window, I proceed. Your cleverness continues to please me. So I ask what answer have you given (or would you give) to someone who PM’d you to ask “where this poem comes from.” Should I look embarrassed or hold my tail up high and balancing like a proper cat walking a fence top?

Best,
Allen

PS: PM from Rick received. He has emptied his mailbox now.

Last edited by Allen Tice; 08-25-2018 at 02:13 PM.
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Old 08-25-2018, 10:26 AM
Jim Moonan Jim Moonan is offline
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x
If Aaron is, as he says, adjacent to the niche in which this poem resides, then I am around the block and up the street and exiting from the underground.

But the poem stands for me purely on the playfulness of the thought/words. After slogging my way through Ulysses I gave Finnegan's Wake a whirl. I must have picked it up a hundred times and got no further than a few paras. But each time I dove in it was a pleasure. I get the same sensation here.

I like the sound and rhythm of "damned" in Mod 1. The abrasive sonics/assonance of “Condemning Epicurus' quirky caper” is too much for my ear.

I think a person even as unenlightened in the classics, mythology, et.al. as I am but relishes words and meanings and the fluidity of thought would love to read a volume of your verse.
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