Eratosphere Forums - Metrical Poetry, Free Verse, Fiction, Art, Critique, Discussions Able Muse - a review of poetry, prose and art

Forum Left Top

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 09-01-2018, 06:12 AM
Bill Carpenter Bill Carpenter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 2,203
Default

Agreed, Douglas. Grammar commenters judge the transitive usage illiterate. See, e.g, https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/ed...graduated-from
Arguing from experience, I first heard "graduated high school" in New Jersey.

Last edited by Bill Carpenter; 09-01-2018 at 06:16 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-01-2018, 06:38 PM
Allen Tice's Avatar
Allen Tice Allen Tice is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY USA
Posts: 3,996
Default

I think that there has been an identity theft of the Grammarfuss brand. I don't approve of those. This particular thread has it's own intrinsic interest, and I posted despite major misgivings. Whether one loved the proper Grammarfuss's search for niceties of nuance or not, the proper Grammarfuss has shown commendable restraint in watching (no doubt goggle-eyed) the proceedings. He deserves a kudo with umami, or maybe a kudo and a half. Or maybe, we others should join with him in a collective of Grammarfussters, just so long as he is in the loop. What say he?
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-01-2018, 06:49 PM
Kevin Rainbow's Avatar
Kevin Rainbow Kevin Rainbow is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Regina, SK; Canada
Posts: 140
Default

Quote:
By definition, the act of graduating is something a school does to a student, not something a student does to a school
Not a very intelligent way to try to make a case here. This person doesn't seem to understand that transitive usages are fully capable of having more than one meaning and that a meaning can imply "from". Narrowmindedness and (often selectively) short attention spans are more of a problem than words developing broader usages.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 09-01-2018, 07:09 PM
Kevin Rainbow's Avatar
Kevin Rainbow Kevin Rainbow is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Regina, SK; Canada
Posts: 140
Default

We do the same thing with the verb depart:

He departed from the city

He departed the city.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 09-02-2018, 02:51 AM
Ann Drysdale's Avatar
Ann Drysdale Ann Drysdale is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Old South Wales (UK)
Posts: 4,237
Default

Kevin, that's because people people are using bigger words where little ones could better be. The words "departed" and "left" are not synonymous, but in your example the simple word has been superseded by the more "refined" one, which has lost its preposition in the process.

Allen, I refer you to posts #4 and #20. You are not alone.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 09-02-2018, 09:12 AM
Jim Moonan Jim Moonan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,559
Default

x
Ann: "Glasses are being chinked and waggled all over the shop, toasts scraped and buttered, but to what are we drinking? To the demise of the old Doctor or to the emergence of the new? Has he been superseded or regenerated? Who knows."

Oh me oh my. Chinked for clinked and toast for drink. Long live regeneration! Let's get to the top of this, Ms. I'll sup a side of Ann and a dollop of Allen and save some room for a piece of mind. The graduation goes on and on and on and on.
x
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 09-02-2018, 02:10 PM
Allen Tice's Avatar
Allen Tice Allen Tice is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY USA
Posts: 3,996
Default

Thank you, Ann. It’s good to ventilate in unison with colleagues who wear seven-league boots. At university, I had a close friend that had a little maths in the wheelhouse, who studied a paper-and-pencil psychological sentence-completion test of “ego development” — as it was assessed by sophisticated, trained evaluators — and found that the judged levels of “ego development” correlated stinkingly well with the logarithm of the written syllable-count of the answers — better than with word count or even letter count. Gosh, that's actually pretty neat!

Obviously, it was not a Freudian ego that was being charted, but the windbag ego that swells with wisdom. It’s just that everybody's upping their personal brand by padding with longer phrases in the climb for status. High “ego development”, thesaurus-rich, sentences like the first two sentences of Coleridge’s “Kubla Khan” were privileged, low “ego development” efforts like poor Aram Saroyan’s “lighght" were dealt disrespect. Haiku might fall in some middle bin. So people want a top kudos evaluation for “departed from” instead of the monosyllabic “fled.” Golly.

Last edited by Allen Tice; 09-02-2018 at 09:52 PM. Reason: uncombing my tongue-tied first draft language
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 09-02-2018, 09:38 PM
Michael Cantor Michael Cantor is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Plum Island, MA
Posts: 10,609
Default

Hey, guys - and particularly Douglas Brown - Dr. Grammarfuss was introduced to the Sphere by Mike Juster in 2012, and since then our history shows 16 Dr. Grammarfuss threads (sometimes Mister Grammarfuss) - all started by Mike, and now one started by Douglas Brown.

I checked to see whether Grammarfuss was a common expression, and it isn't. My impression is that Mike coined it. Why don't we leave it with Mike, Douglas, ignore Mike's generous offer in Post #4, and find yourself another word. Alternately, Mike could license the use of the word to you.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 09-02-2018, 10:05 PM
Allen Tice's Avatar
Allen Tice Allen Tice is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY USA
Posts: 3,996
Default

Re Post number 4: https://sonnet-40-take-all-my-loves-my-love-yea-take-them-all.

I'm singing the music from your page, Cantor, but there's also the public multiple personality "Jethro Tull" option, where any Spherean could become a Grammarfuss.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 09-03-2018, 06:42 AM
Bill Carpenter Bill Carpenter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 2,203
Default

Maybe Douglas' initial post is less a usurpation than a humble petition for advice from the veritable Grammarfuss absconditus.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



Forum Right Top
Forum Left Bottom Forum Right Bottom
 
Right Left
Member Login
Forgot password?
Forum LeftForum Right


Forum Statistics:
Forum Members: 7,908
Total Threads: 19,297
Total Posts: 249,027
There are 199 users
currently browsing forums.
Forum LeftForum Right


Forum Sponsor:
Donate & Support Able Muse / Eratosphere
Forum LeftForum Right
Right Right
Right Bottom Left Right Bottom Right

Hosted by ApplauZ Online