|
Notices |
It's been a while, Unregistered -- Welcome back to Eratosphere! |
|
|
04-08-2012, 08:09 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12,945
|
|
Is there such a thing as Light Verse?
Here's what A A Milne said, or a part of what he said.
Light verse observes the most exact laws of rhythm and meter as if by happy accident, and in the sort of nonchalant spirit of mockery at the real poets who do it on purpose. But to describe it solely leaves something unsaid: one must also say what it is not. Light verse then is not a relaxation of a major poet in the intervals of writing an epic; it is not the kindly contribution of a minor poet to a little girl’s album. It is a precise art which is only been taken seriously and thus qualified as an art in the 19th and 20th century. They needs neither genealogical backing nor distinguished patronage to make it respectable.
There's a lot there that is true. In other words that I agree with. I said on another thread that one could argue that there is no such thing as Light Verse anyway.
What do Spherians think?
|
04-08-2012, 08:47 AM
|
|
Administrator
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Middle England
Posts: 6,957
|
|
Good topic, John.
As a writer of (mainly) light verse myself, I agree with you and old A.A.
Problems arise when 'Light', in some people's minds anyway, equates to 'trivial' or 'meaningless'. (I'm guessing that's why Wendy Cope objects to being called a writer of light verse.)
Lots of people have intimated to me that it must be dead easy to knock out a humorous poem in seconds. They're mistaken; it needs as much care and precision as any serious poem.
Here I must mention two of my pet hates: When people say, of a funny poem (even some writers, not just readers), that
'Of course it's only verse, not real poetry'. Whoever said that 'proper' poetry can't be amusing?
And the other thing that gets my goat is when light/funny/humorous poems, call 'em what you will, are automatically referred to as 'doggerel'. Some are, but the terms are not synonymous.
I could go on... but I won't
Jayne
|
04-08-2012, 09:05 AM
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Iowa City, IA, USA
Posts: 10,099
|
|
Humor is only denigrated by those who lack it. Anyone who tries writing it quickly learns that there are fewer things harder than managing to be funny. I think to a lot of people "light verse" denotes verse that is not serious, but most good light verse I know manages to make many serious points and make them more effectively than serious poetry often does. My favorite light verse is often very dark indeed, addressing losses with a bravado that can be heartbreaking or satirizing injustice intelligently and fearlessly. Even when light verse does nothing but make me laugh, it is doing something that I welcome and long for. I will admit that humor can be a kind of self-protective armor that some writers use to deflect self-questioning. But in the hands of the best writers it is a scalpel.
Susan
|
04-08-2012, 10:11 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Takoma Park, MD
Posts: 3,705
|
|
In the United States, liberals by and large gave up on that name and started calling themselves progressives, because the term 'liberal' had so much sneering baggage loaded onto it over the years. Maybe people who write what is often called light verse feel the same way. But I, who wish my first instinct was to write light verse, think it's a great tag, and a proud tradition.
Ed
P.S. What Susan said.
|
04-08-2012, 10:11 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Old South Wales (UK)
Posts: 6,688
|
|
I agree, happily, with all that has been said heretofore. But then, I would, wouldn't I?
Last edited by Ann Drysdale; 04-08-2012 at 02:34 PM.
|
04-08-2012, 10:20 AM
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 1,215
|
|
Well, I've already sounded off about this but I'll expand a bit. I think the main feature of light verse is not humour but comprehensibility to a general audience. I've cribbed this view from Stephen Fry, who says:
Light verse does not need to be comic in intent or witty in nature: it encourages readers to believe that they and the poet share the same discourse, intelligence and standing, inhabit the same universe of feeling and cultural reference, it does not howl in misunderstood loneliness, wallow in romantic agony or bombard the reader with learning and allusion from a Parnassian or abstrusely academic height.
I think we should be proud to be light poets. Especially Wendy Cope, who has my vote for High Priestess of the Order. I would write more but I'm busy designing our robes and sacrificial rites.
|
04-08-2012, 11:18 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12,945
|
|
Ah Mary, I think all poetry should be comprehensible. I always am. Except when I'm not, if you see what I mean. If you're going to be incomprehensible you should know that that's what you're aiming at. Like this by Edwin Morgan:
The Loch Ness Monster's Song
Sssnnnwhuffffll?
Hnwhuffl hhnnwfl hnfl hfl?
Gdroblboblhobngbl gbl gl g g g g glbgl.
Drublhaflablhaflubhafgabhaflhafl fl fl -
gm grawwwww grf grawf awfgm graw gm.
Hovoplodok - doplodovok - plovodokot - doplodokosh?
Splgraw fok fok splgrafhatchgabrlgabrl fok splfok!
Zgra kra gka fok!
Grof grawff gahf?
Gombl mbl bl -
blm plm,
blm plm,
blm plm,
blp
|
04-08-2012, 12:27 PM
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 1,215
|
|
John, I think that excellent example is just as comprehensible to the average teenager as it is to a university lecturer in literature. And I agree with you that all good poetry should be comprehensible to the public, but it seems to me that many of the mainstream poetry journals don't share our view.
|
04-08-2012, 04:02 PM
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Plum Island, MA; Santa Fe, NM
Posts: 11,175
|
|
Jayne, I can't speak for the other guys, but when I crit a supposedly humorous poem as "trivial" or "meaningless", it isn't because it's "light" - it's because it's not very good. There is a difference between somewhat indiscriminately championing anything that passes itself off as "light", and being as demanding when critting light verse as when discussing love sonnets or metaphysical ruminations.
I also have to admit that this entire thing has me a bit snarky. David Anthony is a good guy and a friend - and I apologize to David in advance for using his poem as an example - but he has just posted a "light" poem on Metrical that I assume was prompted by this thread. I would give it about a C+ for humor and originality, if we were passing out grades, but (except for me) the reaction was extraordinarily positive. If you think that was a "brilliant" poem, Jayne, and if that tired, tired "my pocket conceals a big pen" line had you in hysterics, I believe we inhabit different planets. (I also believe that it's permissible to "crit the critter" on a Discussion thread - otherwise we would not have much of a discussion.)
What gets my goat is not automatically criticizing light verse because it's not ponderous, but what I think is frequently more common on the Sphere - using "it's light verse" as an excuse for bad poetry. There is a great deal of second-rate work posted here and elsewhere (and frequently in Light Quarterly) as "light verse", and a disturbing incllnation on the part of many to applaud it because, after all, it's "light".
It is at least as difficult to write good light verse as it is to write good "serious" verse. If it's mockery you're after it has to be fresh and effective, and apparent-without-being-too-apparent; word play should be unique; imagery vivid; and the overall theme challenging and unusual - not warmed-over sitcom treacle. And politically-oriented or "serious" light verse has to be pointed and hopefully scathing, but avoid preachiness. It's not easy. And
I agree with what Sean said about focusing on good verse and bad verse, and with what Susan said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Susan McLean
Anyone who tries writing it quickly learns that there are fewer things harder than managing to be funny. I think to a lot of people "light verse" denotes verse that is not serious, but most good light verse I know manages to make many serious points and make them more effectively than serious poetry often does. My favorite light verse is often very dark indeed, addressing losses with a bravado that can be heartbreaking or satirizing injustice intelligently and fearlessly. Even when light verse does nothing but make me laugh, it is doing something that I welcome and long for... in the hands of the best writers it is a scalpel.
|
In short, I don't think the real problem on the Sphere is that we are denigrating light verse because it is "light" or humorous. I think the major problem is that far too frequently bad poetry is getting a free pass here because once it is regarded as "light", too many crits are undemanding.
Last edited by Michael Cantor; 04-08-2012 at 04:06 PM.
|
04-08-2012, 04:32 PM
|
|
Administrator
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Middle England
Posts: 6,957
|
|
I think David's poem is funny, Michael, and can't quite see why you're being so critical.
OK, perhaps 'brilliant' is a bit strong - I use it in a casual sense to describe something I really enjoyed. I've been to brilliant restaurants, seen brilliant films, that kind of thing... it's just a word.
I can't agree with your last sentence, though. Most of the 'bad poetry' I see here isn't the light stuff.
Jayne
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Member Login
Forum Statistics:
Forum Members: 8,406
Total Threads: 21,912
Total Posts: 271,579
There are 5047 users
currently browsing forums.
Forum Sponsor:
|
|
|
|
|
|