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  #21  
Unread 03-16-2015, 12:38 PM
Roger Slater Roger Slater is online now
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OK, fixed. Thanks again. I didn't check it since I thought I'd simply cut and pasted. (I'm usually better at this kind of stuff).
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  #22  
Unread 03-16-2015, 12:58 PM
Michael Cantor Michael Cantor is offline
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Now that her poem has been rejiggered to fit the eight lines, it's much more difficult to read, and not nearly as good. You're ahead anyway, but it's a shame they didn't enforce the rules from the beginning. I thought that was one of the things kids should learn.
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  #23  
Unread 03-16-2015, 02:41 PM
Julie Steiner Julie Steiner is offline
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Well, the poem does say "math's just not my bailiwick."

As long as we're complaining about anyone who is not our friend...I'll pile on to say that I'm very sorry to see a female author say that math is so ridiculously hard that only "Nick" can do it.

Last edited by Julie Steiner; 03-16-2015 at 02:47 PM. Reason: Off topic
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  #24  
Unread 03-16-2015, 04:24 PM
Roger Slater Roger Slater is online now
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I thought the same think, Julie, but a few women in my children's poetry workshop tell me they don't see it that way. They argue that there's nothing to tell us that the speaker is a female. I said that people know the name of the poet, which is one clue, but even without knowing the poet's name, it just sounds to me like a female speaker even though I can offer no proof. I'd like to convince them if you have any arguments I could borrow.
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  #25  
Unread 03-16-2015, 05:12 PM
Julie Steiner Julie Steiner is offline
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Well, like you, I can't prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that the narrator is female, but I think the following four factors contribute to that overall impression:

* Author's name and photo (combined with the fact that the audience is children, who may not have had "the literary I is not necessarily autobiographical" drilled into them). Then again, the speaker is very clearly not the poet in lots of children's poems, so kids know lots of precedents for non-autobiographical "I"s.

* L1: Reference to someone named "Suzie," whose name also happens to appear in many classic rhymes and songs for jump rope and hand-clap games. These activities have a closer association with girls than with boys. But one could argue that this is an ordinary "little Suzie" rather than the legendary "Miss Suzie" of sailboat, etc., fame.

* The same line contains the clichéd rhyme "six" and "sticks"...which became clichéd by appearing in lots of poems and songs used for jumping rope...although one could argue that these appear in lots of children's songs in general (e.g., "This Old Man," "One, Two, Buckle My Shoe" [Edited to say--Oh, wait, I distinctly remember jumping rope to that one.]).

* L2: Sadly, "all the food I ate that day" is a concept more likely to be on the radar screen of girls than boys. From the infallible Internet: "By age 6, girls especially start to express concerns about their own weight or shape. 40-60% of elementary school girls (ages 6-12) are concerned about their weight or about becoming too fat. (Smolak, 2011)." [Link to source] Again, one could argue that boys are infamous for eating prodigious quantities of food, and the reference could simply be to a large but indeterminate amount.

On an unrelated note, don't most kids outgrow their obsessive interest in dinosaurs long before they start encountering algebraic expressions with dual variables (x and b)? (I didn't, but was repeatedly told how abnormal this was. [Edited to say: I also loved math, and was repeatedly told how abnormal that was, too.]) I think the poem would resonate better with actual algebra students if it resembled the types of things encountered in "word problems" a little more closely--trains leaving stations, bathtubs filling at different rates--instead of having random references to primary-grade silliness like dinosaurs and little Suzie playing with sticks, which I never encountered in an algebra class.

[I think this is where I'd stopped when Roger mentioned my "last sentence," in his post below.]

The poem might end up falling between two chairs--young kids won't understand the algebra bits, and older kids will find the dinosaur and little Suzie bits too condescendingly babyish. But the silly humor and the anti-math sentiment may make up for that, even if the kids haven't encountered algebraic expressions before and thus don't really get the joke. I guess we'll see.

Last edited by Julie Steiner; 03-16-2015 at 05:39 PM.
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  #26  
Unread 03-16-2015, 05:28 PM
Roger Slater Roger Slater is online now
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I agree with you, Julie. Especially your last sentence. To me the lack of resemblance to real word problems made the poem come off too easy, there was no challenge at all to coming up with rhymes; they were all just as easy as the final rhyme which relied on a proper name to rhyme with. If Nick was to rhyme with bailiwick at the end, it would have been a good idea to mention Nick or Nicholas earlier in the poem without a rhyme to make it sound unforced at the end.
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  #27  
Unread 03-16-2015, 11:51 PM
Martin Elster Martin Elster is offline
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I just voted for your poem, Roger. Good luck!
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  #28  
Unread 03-17-2015, 02:40 PM
Roger Slater Roger Slater is online now
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Well, the results are in. Though I won the popular vote, I lost overall. The "authletes" (the other competitors) voted 51% for the other poem, and the kids in their classrooms went against me by a wider margin. Just two more "authlete" votes and I'd have won the whole thing. But to my surprise, I'm actually happy with the result. The pressure of coming up with a poem so quickly and then trolling for votes isn't entirely pleasant. It's a relief that I won't be getting a new word this evening.

Thanks, everyone, for your votes.
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  #29  
Unread 03-18-2015, 10:43 AM
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Catherine Chandler Catherine Chandler is offline
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Darn! But yes, Roger, casting pearls is an exhausting business !
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