[William A. Baurle]

Can we have a vote? Is contemporary poetry better off since WCW abandoned formal verse for free verse? Some bemoan and decry the influence of the dreaded Wheelbarrow. I feel the exact opposite.

I vote a resounding yes!

Here's just one example of the kind of poetry William Carlos Williams was writing in 1909:


The Uses of Poetry

I've fond anticipation of a day
O'erfilled with pure diversion presently,
For I must read a lady poesy
The while we glide by many a leafy bay,

Hid deep in rushes, where at random play
The glossy black winged May-flies, or whence flee
Hush-throated nestlings in alarm,
Whom we have idly frighted with our boat's long sway.

For, lest o'ersaddened by such woes as spring
To rural peace from our meek onward trend,
What else more fit? We'll draw the latch-string

And close the door of sense; then satiate wend,
On poesy's transforming giant wing,
To works afar whose fruits all anguish mend.

Williams, William Carlos. The Early Poems of William Carlos Williams [Annotated] (Kindle Locations 337-347). Perscribo Publishing. Kindle Edition.

[William A. Baurle]

POET’S WORK

Grandfather
advised me:
Learn a trade

I learned
to sit at desk
and condense

No layoff
from this
condensery

— Lorine Niedecker

N.B. Faraj, will you join me in this thread? What do you think of the Niedecker poem? I have another in a similar vein to post, or link to, by the truly amazing poet, Basil Bunting. But I will wait to see if anyone comes along here first.

[John Whitworth]

What makes that a poem, William? Is it because she says it is?

Williams began as a bad poet. So he started writing little pensees instead. That was an improvement. IMO.

[Michael F]

Bill,

The first poem is a strong argument for destroying one's juvenilia, as I think Eliot did (and recommended, at least by example). I don't feel competent to voice an opinion on the whole state of contemporary poetry, but I shall say that the other WC Williams you posted hereabouts is much, much, much better. IMHO.

I'll follow this thread happily. I haven't read WCW in some years, but I almost brought him with me to CA ... I opted for Kipling's short stories instead. Ah, decisions, decisions, as you say!

[William A. Baurle]

Originally Posted by John Whitworth

What makes that a poem, William? Is it because she says it is?

Of course, John. You may recall that I've argued for that before.

The important question is not whether it's a poem, since it's certainly a poem. The important question is, "Is it a good poem or a bad poem?"

I think it's a good poem, but not nearly as good as the dreaded Wheelbarrow poem.

[William A. Baurle]

Keats began as a bad poet also. I might post one that I think is absolutely horrible. But I got in trouble on another board because people thought I was trying to besmirch the memory of Keats. Heaven forbid, as Paul might say. Keats remains one of my favorite poets, if not my favorite. It's so hard to decide on a favorite. But I do love Keats more than any other poet, on a wholly subjective and personal level, whether or not his poems are my favorites.

Don't all poets start out as bad poets, now that I think of it?

And yes, Michael. I destroyed nearly all of my first blights. Someone, the composer what's-his-name (dammit, memory), said, "First operas should be drowned, like kittens."

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/pascal/pensees.html

Now I get it!

[Jayne Osborn]

The Uses of Poetry

I've fond anticipation of a day
O'erfilled with pure diversion presently,
For I must read a lady poesy
The while we glide by many a leafy bay,

Hid deep in rushes, where at random play
The glossy black winged May-flies, or whence flee
Hush-throated nestlings in alarm,
Whom we have idly frighted with our boat's long sway.

For, lest o'ersaddened by such woes as spring
To rural peace from our meek onward trend,
What else more fit? We'll draw the latch-string

And close the door of sense; then satiate wend,
On poesy's transforming giant wing,
To works afar whose fruits all anguish mend.

Heck, WCW can be thankful he's not around to post that poem here for critique. Imagine the response he'd get. It's truly awful

But so is the The Red Wheelbarrow, IMO. (Sorry, Bill!)

Jayne

[William A. Baurle]

No need to be sorry, Jayne!

I value your opinion, but I love that dreaded cantankerous ratz-a-fratzin Wheelbarrow!

[R. S. Gwynn]

Some poets have the knack for rhyme, meter, and tight form. WCW didn't. Pound did, but he quickly learned there was no way to advance past Yeats, though he would have done well enough as a decadent if that style wasn't old hat. So Make It New became his credo; he wanted to be in step with the modern artists in that respect. I like HSM as poetry, but I lose patience after that, just as Pound, I think, lost patience with poems for POETRY. There's a big difference between the two. Williams also tried POETRY in the Paterson books, but he should have stuck to poems instead. Poems are made; POETRY is written. I could go on and will if anyone has questions, but I'm in DC right now and have to limit my screeds. I will add that the silly red wheelbarrow was probably written as an "in your face" to those who had set definitions about what poetry is and isn't (or what a poem is or isn't) and it did work in that respect. The Armory Show of 1912 (?) was a watershed for the American arts in general.

[William A. Baurle]

Just one question, Sam,

When you say "poems are made", does that agree with what I am saying, and have said before, that

"if a person makes a pile of words and calls it a poem, then it's a poem"?

I said that ^ in an older thread about a poet who had gotten famous for slamming Garrison Keillor's "Good Poems". That poet had been well-known before for his poems, but he became even more famous for dragging a book through the dirt.

I still have to post that Bunting poem, if I can find it.