[Andrew Frisardi]

In another thread, a member was saying that he sometimes uses and hears the word “alas” in normal conversation, so it’s natural enough to use it in translation of an old poem.

I admit that I cringe when I hear the word in a poem, even an old one (i.e., one recently translated into English). Clearly this is my personal association, a result of conditioning of one kind or another. But I can’t shake the reaction--yet, anyway.

I’m curious as to other people’s experience. Is “alas” a word that’s used still, without irony? How do you feel about its use in translations of old poems?

As in . . . “Alas! my ass is grass!”

It seems that the only alternative in current American idiom for an exclamatory word like this is “Oh, shit!” Which obviously won’t do.

[Maryann Corbett]

Andrew, I think Susan even has a poem on this question.

It's a problem: there's no perfect modern substitute. Ach has a foreign flavor, as does oy vey. Ah me is affected-sounding. Oh dear is too muted. Ack or argh--no. I think the translator is better off inventing or inserting something that gets across pain or dread, though it may take more than two syllables.

[Brian Watson]

Collins Concise indicates that alas is archaic as an exclamation of grief or alarm, but not as a sentence connector meaning unfortunately or regrettably, as in there were, alas, none left. The latter kind of expression is one I hear my parents use quite often in ordinary conversation, but never hear from my contempories.

[Michael Cantor]

Andrew, as soon as I saw the title of your post, the word "cringe" came to mind. We're on the same page.

Alas, I can't think of a substitute either. I prefer the more explosive "Shit!" to "Oh, shit.", but neither really works in situations like the opening word of this paragraph. "Sadly", works there - but not in other applications. On the Sphere I frequently use "Oy!" (I can do that with more authenticity than you, Maryann), but it's a word with narrow application and audience. Is there something pretentious in French we could employ? The French do a lot of sighing.

[Skip Dewahl]

“Alas! my ass is grass!”

Oh, lawdy (lordy) me!(?) Nah.

[Roger Slater]

Oy, poor Yurick?

It's certainly a word to be avoided if only because we know that a lot of people will react the way Andrew does, but I do believe that I hear people say it from time to time. It's certainly more common than thou or thee or prithee, and just about everyone fully understands it without any effort or confusion.

Just to be on the safe side, I'm sticking with alack.

[Andrew Frisardi]

Is there something pretentious in French we could employ? The French do a lot of sighing.

I hear that Donald Rumsfeld sighs in French.

I think that Brian hits the nail on the head with the distinction between alas as exclamation and the same word as connector. The former usage doesn't fit our understated ironic style.

[Brian Watson]

Pan is our All, by him we breathe, we live,
We move, we are;...
But when he frowns, the sheep, alas,
The shepherds wither, and the grass.

(Ben Jonson, Pan's Anniversary.)

(cross-posted. Not relevant, I just like it).

[Ann Drysdale]

A connector, yes - but what a connector! Four little letters can carry so much information and innuendo, as in:

At Dirty Dick's and Sloppy Joe's
We drank our liquor straight,
Some went upstairs with Margery,
And some, alas, with Kate.

W H Auden.

[David Rosenthal]

But even in the sense Brian suggests, it can survive in speech much more acceptably than in print. Somehow seeing "alas" is more cringeworthy than hearing it used unaffectedly. Plus, I think when people use it, even as a connector, the are aware of sounding a little archaic and use the word to lighten the context. It is used self-consciously, but that is harder to convey in print.

David R.