[Andrew Frisardi]

Any suggestions? He's a poet I'd like to know but I don't know German. Translations I've seen have seemed anemic.

[Kevin J MacLellan]

Originally Posted by Andrew Frisardi

Any suggestions? He's a poet I'd like to know but I don't know German. Translations I've seen have seemed anemic.

How do you judge anemia from your perspective? Isn't it like judging 'grace' in blind class? Or perhaps you know how to do that. Anything is pissible, n'est pas?
Regards

[Andrew Frisardi]

Originally Posted by Kevin J MacLellan

How do you judge anemia from your perspective? Isn't it like judging 'grace' in blind class? Or perhaps you know how to do that. Anything is pissible, n'est pas?
Regards

Well, I figure since Heine is regarded as one of the great German poets, his poetry must be exciting. I have found (the few) translations I have read boring.

[Christopher ONeill]

Heine needs to be read in German, but his German is usually very simple (unlike Holderlin, Rilke, or Gryphius).

I got into Heine (my German is very weak) through the Penguin dual language edition which prints the German text above a very creditable prose translation by Peter Branscombe.

You can get just the Branscombe prose translations on their own, but I wouldn't see the point in that.

I don't know of any really good translations of Heine. I once managed to get my own version of Die Lorelei magazine-published. But that was a very odd translation (the only way I could get even close to the strangeness of the original poem), and I've had a deal of sympathy with translators who produce normal-looking translations which miss the point entirely ever since.

[Andrew Frisardi]

Seems like sound advice. Thank you. No doubt I can get something out of the originals with good prose cribs. On the other hand, a skillful and conscientious translation can more useful if the source language is not at least marginally familiar to the reader. Or if the reader doesn't have enough time for poring over the texts. It would be great to see your Lorelei at the Translation forum.

[Orwn Acra]

Just wondering, which translations do you find anemic?

[Skip Dewahl]

Here are some of the difficulties Andrew may have been thinking about re translating Heine, and German in general (see page 65):

Acrobat Reader: http://www.google.com/url?q=http://w...fnK-rxntk7CzaA

Google Cache (less of a headache for slow connections): http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...lation&ct=clnk

[Christopher ONeill]

I tried to read the Lefevere article from your first link;- but there seem to be three missing pages in the middle of it.
Not that I was getting very far with it anyway. Lefevere's method seems to be to cite a passage of Heine in German, then cite a translation, then say it isn't a good translation.
Maybe so, maybe not;- but since Lefevere almost never says why he doesn't like the translation he cited, I'm none the wiser.
Perhaps it was all explained in the missing three pages.

[John Whitworth]

The problem is similar to that of Horace. If he is the greatest Latin poet, and the Romans thought that he was, how is it translations seem so.... well anaemic? My Latin is just good enough to see why he is good. I wonder which English poets are similarly untranslateable. We know the French think Byron and Poe are the summit of nineteenth century poetry in English and we know that isn't so. Is Keats translateable?

[Andrew Frisardi]

Originally Posted by Orwn Acra

Just wondering, which translations do you find anemic?

None in particular -- I've just read individual translations in venues here and there. Never followed up any of it, since the writing didn't appeal to me.

Excellent link, Skip, though I too noticed the three missing pages in the middle of the article. It's interesting what the article says about Theodore Martin's translations of Heine as being the version everyone knew in English. If it is the same Martin, he also translated Dante, and not very well. Even his friend Matthew Arnold gave it a bad review.

The article could go into more detail, as Christopher says above, but it's still interesting to at least have some points of comparison, as in

. . . there is the problem that “many of his poems, while wholly colloquial in speech and casual and even trite in idea, are transmuted into magic by their word-music and the perfection of vowel and consonant sound” (Untermeyer 1917:xxii). Even modern translstors miss the “simplicity” implied here, as when M. M. Bozman renders

Vergiftet sind meine Lieder; -
Wie könnt’ es anders sein?
Ich trage im Herzen vie1 Schlangen,
Und dich, Geliebte mein. (Poem 51)

as

My songs are poisoned, say you
How should they wholesome prove
When my heart is full of serpents -
And of thee, my Lilith-love? (in Ewen 1969)

On the other hand, too much appears to be sacrificed to the music in

The canon with
mouth open wide burped,
“This love puts your health on the bum;
It’s bad,” And a cute little bride chirped,
(She looked like an angel) “How come?” (Auslender 1956)

as a rendering of the third stanza of Poem 50:

Der Domherr öffnet den Mund weit:
“Die Liebe sei nicht zu roh,
Sie schadet sonst der Gesundheit.”
Das Fräulein lispelt: “Wieso?”

Still, some translators manage quite well. Here is Draper’s version of the first stanza of Poem 36, ‘Aus meinen grossen Schmerzen’:

Out of my great unrest
I make little songs and things;
They lift their tinkling wings
And flutter off to her breast.

Similarly, Bowring turns the fourth stanza of Poem 50,

Die Gräfin spricht wehmütig:
“Die Liebe ist eine Passion!”
Und präsentieret gütig
Die Tasse dem Herren Baron.

into

The Countess her sad feelings vented
Said “Love is a passion, I’m sure,”
And then to the Baron presented
His cup with politeness demure.

Coming back to this to add that John's point about who is translatable and who isn't is an interesting one. I don't know enough about it, but I wonder, did people think of Molière as untranslatable before Wilbur translated him? Maybe Heine or Keats just needs the right translator to come along. Then again, maybe not. I honestly wouldn't know who is translatable and who isn't. But I'm curious as to why Heine or Horace would be more so than, say, Byron or Baudelaire (who I think has been translated well).