[john savoie]

Is there a technical term--and any sharp descriptive terms or observations upon the effect while we're at it--for a clear assonant rhyme with no closing consonant, such as "blue" and "new"?

[Ann Drysdale]

I have no idea, John, but I know a man who will. He's not on the Sphere so I'll send a message by other means, "asking, for a friend" so to speak. I'll let you know what he says.

Meanwhile, I was experimenting with making the sounds you specified and came up with the adjective "sphinctral". Best not go there, though. Think of Athene and the Aulos and what happened when she caught sight of her flute-face. Marsyas...

I'll ask Nigel. It's for the best.

[John Isbell]

Yes, poor Marsyas. He had the best intentions.
The French would be happy calling this a rime pauvre. Here's some French person on the internet:

La richesse des rimes (on dit parfois de manière plus ambiguë la qualité) : elle est déterminée par le nombre de sons communs.
rime pauvre = 1 son commun (dernière voyelle tonique seule). Ex. : aussi / lit = masculine pauvre - vie / remplie = féminine pauvre
rime suffisante = 2 sons communs (la dernière voyelle tonique + une consonne prononcée derrière ou devant ou + une autre voyelle devant). Ex. animal/chacal - horizon/maison - nuées/huées...
rime riche = 3 sons communs (rime suffisante + un autre son devant). Ex. cancre/ancre - prêteuse/emprunteuse...(tiré du Wikipédia)

Cheers,
John

[Andrew Szilvasy]

John,

Thanks for sharing. Very informative.

[Ann Drysdale]

Yes, thank you John. The man I intended asking is in Ireland for the whole of August. I'd like to know too as I'd just have taken it as a true rhyme and the original post has me wondering.

[Brian Allgar]

rime riche = 3 sons communs (rime suffisante + un autre son devant). Ex. cancre/ancre - prêteuse/emprunteuse...(tiré du Wikipédia)


I don't get it. How are there 'three common sounds' here? And in the second example, what rhyme is there except '...teuse'?

[Andrew Szilvasy]

I think, in English:

rime pauvre: blue/true; gray/bay. The vowel is the one sound in common.

rime suffisante: taught/bought; cool/pool. The vowel and the concluding consonant are in common. Those are the two.

rime riche: pool/whirlpool; plant/implant: the initial consonant, the vowel, and the concluding consonant of the rhyme are all in common.

So t / eu / se is common in prêteuse/emprunteuse making it rime riche.

[Brian Allgar]

rime riche: pool/whirlpool; plant/implant: the initial consonant, the vowel, and the concluding consonant of the rhyme are all in common.

The poor French must be easily satisfied, then. What they call 'rime riche' is what we would disparage as 'identity rhymes'.

[John Isbell]

Brian: "The poor French must be easily satisfied, then. What they call 'rime riche' is what we would disparage as 'identity rhymes'."
This is exactly right. It's a thing Anglo-Saxons run into when reading or critting French or francophone poetry. The ear, which is culturally trainable, does eventually adjust. OTOH, French traditionally requires the alternation of masculine and feminine rhymes, which is a bit of a challenge. I'd love to share some of my French poetry on the Sphere but it doesn't seem quite appropriate. Oh well...

Cheers,
John

[Andrew Szilvasy]

John

I'm working my way through French for Reading (about 60% done), which I think is an excellent book, in hopes that I can read my favorite French poets with more ease. I had, in the past, been able to, with some ease, read Le Monde and Le Figaro, but I lapsed a bit and am being more concerted in my efforts now.

Any really good French poets you like that might be pretty accessible? Again, I love and know fairly well French poetry (in English) from Nerval to, lets say Valery. So they're really my target at the moment, but if there are very good poets who are easier before or after, I'd love to start reading them alongside my more formal, academic reading.