[Jill Domschot]

I was reading on one of the threads in non-met, and somebody -- I think it was Janice -- said that a writer has to earn the right to write in a second language. Personally, I find it freeing to write in a second language and was doing so long before I had "earned" the right (I'm not sure exactly what that means, anyway). I feel that I can avoid cliches better and am able to look at words from a new perspective. Even now, I would probably be spotted as a non-native speaker (of Spanish), however.

Does anybody else write in 2nd languages? What do you think of earning the right, versus freeing yourself from the burdens of the native language?

Jill

[Catherine Chandler]

Jill,
I write both in French and Spanish, though infrequently. I don't consider it an acquired right, but a pleasurable privilege.
Catherine

[Janice D. Soderling]

Good heavens, did I say such a stupid thing as "earn the right", I hope not, but I do sometimes get carried away and make ill-advised statements.

Writing in a second language can be fun and sometimes elucidating, but I see (in my business) many examples of SL writers who are good but not excellent. What I hope I said, or implied, is this:

If one cannot write well in one's own language, trying to do it in a second language entails struggling against even greater odds. I'm pretty sure that was the point I was trying to make, I've tried to make it so many times.

Learn to write well in your own language first, before you (you = anyone)try it in a second language. OK, let me qualify that further. Anyone can try of course, I am not the writing police. I'm just giving unasked for advice.

I can almost always spot when someone is writing in English as a second language, though I don't always say so. People who do this invariably write FV, because they think they can get away with it there. And often it is no worse than bad free verse written by a native speaker.

There are exceptions Beckett, Conrad. Maybe someone will want to talk about them in this thread.

Big difference though, between charming conversation and writing literary works.

Translating is great practice, and I hope, Jill, that you will try your hand at that. We have a wonderful translation forum, Marion and the people who post there are supportive, knowledgeable, and friendly as all get-out.

PS. Now I have looked at the thread I think you are referring to, and "Whew" I can't see that I have said "earn the right". What a relief.

This is an interesting topic, Jjill, and I hope it will draw some attention.

[Susan McLean]

As someone who teaches a course on writing metrical poetry, I can say that I have had students for whom English was not their first language who have nevertheless done better than many of the native English speakers at writing poems in form. Yes, they sometimes have typical English as a Second Language problems with articles, for example, but the ones who write well in form know English well and--I think most importantly--have read widely in English poetry, something that is often not true of many of my American-born students.

Susan

[Janice D. Soderling]

Interesting Susan, and I don't doubt for a minute what you say about the education. I have many friends who are extremely well-informed about American and English literature.

Would you say that your students were also competent in writing in their native tongue?

asks Janice

[Susan McLean]

Janice, I have no way of knowing how they write in their native languages. In some cases, I don't even know what their native languages were or at what age they came to America.

Susan

[Janice D. Soderling]

Oh, I thought you were speaking of foreign students, exchange students.

[Carol Taylor]

I sometimes write in Spanish on the theory that I probably write as well (if not as fluently) as native speakers who never studied their own language. In the same way, educated ESL speakers often write English better (if not more fluently) than under-educated native speakers.

No one should be discouraged from writing or speaking another language. What would be the point in learning one? Sure, you'll make mistakes, but if you wait until you get it right before you start you'll never say or write a word.

I'm not keen on language dropping, the practice of sprinkling foreign phrases into a poem to show your own erudition. Foreign words and phrases have their uses in writing, of course; they can add local flavor or establish geographical or cultural connections or characterization. But don't assume a reader won't know whether you've managed them correctly just because you don't know the difference. Your poem could wind up sounding like something a computer translated.

Carol




[This message has been edited by Carol Taylor (edited September 09, 2008).]

[Jill Domschot]

Sorry, Janice. I didn't mean to get your quote wrong. I just had remembered a glimmering of something similar from a thread on non-met, and it made me wonder whether my pathetic attempts in Spanish fit what you were saying.

I say "pathetic", but, on the other hand, I have fun writing in Spanish, and I usually attempt traditional Spanish forms like silvas, liras or romances. I feel that I can look at language from a different perspective.

I don't particularly like language-dropping, either, though it's done frequently where I live, due to the bilingual nature of New Mexico. People talk like that, here, so it sounds pretty normal to me.

Although I translated the poetry and prose of Sor Juana for a thesis, I don't consider that I could add to all of the much better translations out there. I doubt that I'd be very good at translations. Jill

[Seree Zohar]

Jill -
I feel that writing in a 2nd language, and translating either direction, are two entirely different spheres of language usage (and brain activity!). Trying your hand at prose in a SL is one thing; trying your hand at poetry is another, and would probably best be done by doing a lot of reading of natural speakers' poetry first. If there is any way that you can get a natural speaker with Lit. credentials of some kind to go thru your work with you, and show what might be altered and why, you'd really be able to gain a lot. I think that activities like these help you "earn the right" so to speak - that is, they will improve your skills to a degree where your work will be given serious consideration because it employs an appropriately accomplished use of the language. Janice already suggested joining us on Translation. go for it!