[Allen Tice]

Catullus country.

My wife and I are visiting north Italy from October 11 (fatigued late morning landing at Venice) until October 17 (departure on trireme from Venice for points east at early dinner time). During our time between, we want to look at (and perhaps sniff...??) Venice a bit, but mainly our goal is the Catullus sites around Sirmio and Verona (and anything truly wonderful nearby). We are interested in suggestions for transportation, lodging, saving money if not too onerous, and things of that sort. We have all our limbs and lungs, but "roughing it" for an extended time isn't looked for. We welcome any and all thoughts, suggestions, and leads to produce a truly splendid experience. If Andrew Frisardi or Gregory Dowling or anyone else could drop his/her two Euro-cents at some time into this thread, we will read it with attention. I will naturally ask also on "TripAdvisor" and read "Fodors", but there's nothing like toes-on experience.

All Best, and thanks in advance,
Allen Tice

[Janice D. Soderling]

Enjoy Allen. (And spouse too!)

Enjoy a huge gelato on my behalf!

[Jayne Osborn]

I can't give you an iota of help with your request as I haven't been to Italy, but I have more than an iota of envy for your trip!

Have a great time, Allen! I'm sure it will indeed be "a truly splendid experience"

Jayne

[Brian Allgar]

If you're going to be in Verona, then you're only 35 miles from Vicenza, which contains a number of fine villas and other buildings designed by Palladio, especially the irresistible Teatro Olimpico.

[Andrew Frisardi]

Gregory is far more knowledgeable about that part of Italy than I am, but I'll second Brian's recommendation for Vicenza, an easy daytrip from Verona. My one time in Verona, I stayed for a few days in the campground just outside the city center, a 20 minute walk or so, passing over the Adige on the way. It was a fabulous campground, very laid back, but it sounds like you're not looking for the camping experience and October wouldn't be right for it anyway. (Actually, that's a great time of year to go -- you will be past the bestial heat we've been having all summer.) But no doubt you'll visit the Roman Arena, still in use (did Catullus go there?), read some of the graffiti outside the house the tourist board has decided was Juliet Capulet's, and take in the monuments to the Della Scala family, which hosted Dante in exile. But my favorite single site in Verona was the Basilica of San Zeno, worth visiting for the magnificent doors alone (click on the third image down). Verona is one of the most beautiful cities in Italy, I think. You'll love it.

[Allen Tice]

Hello, and thanks to all who've answered so far, Brian and Andrew especially! For some reason I didn't get the alerts to your replies and had to actively click on the thread. Those doors, Andrew, remind me of the great ones in Firenze. The poet Catullus was "early" Verona (contemporary with Julius Caesar in Gaul), and only dating the arena itself can answer that question. But I think I'll see what the guides say and do some web-swinging too.

I hear there's a fine Sirmione Villa museum. And some nice views of the mountains northward.

Janice, I think you committed a comma fault in your first sentence. Apart from my spouse, who (or what) is to enjoy Allen? (Don't want no fleas etc enjoying spouse or Allen!) He and she will enjoy gelati, though, early and often.

[Janice D. Soderling]

Ha. No fleas on Allen, no siree. I mean, Allen and spouse, enjoy Italy, enjoy gelato, how could you not.

[Gregory Dowling]

Allen, Sirmione is a magical place. Some older guidebooks try to dignify the Roman remains and the museum at the end of the peninsula by calling it Catullus's villa but it was clearly the villa of someone a lot wealthier than a poet. However, the main thing is the wonderful position of the place, on this long tongue of land projecting out into the lake. If you are thinking of spending some time on the lake, apart from Sirmione most of the really interesting places are at the northern end, since the southern end is mainly flat. You might want to visit D'Annunzio's villa on the western shore; he was half-crazy and extremely antipatico but the Fascist regime rewarded him (or shut him up) by awarding him this villa in a superb position overlooking the lake; the house and grounds are well worth visiting. Salo', the heart of the puppet Fascist regime at the end of the Second World War, is in fact an attractive little town. A bus-ride (or you could hire a car, I guess) up the western side of the lake is extremely dramatic, passing through long tunnels and then emerging on high points with splendid views. Stop off at Limone, extremely picturesque and then spend a night at Riva at the top of the lake. Come down the eastern side, stopping at Malcesine (very picturesque, complete with castle) and Garda itself.

There, that's the lake sewn up. Verona: I lived in Verona before moving to Venice and I agree it with Andrew that it is one of the most beautiful towns in Italy. There is certainly enough there to keep you going for several days.

Visit all the sights in the centre of the city but don't miss San Zeno, as Andrew says; in addition to the superb doors there is a splendid Mantegna. And make sure you cross the river to see some of the churches on the opposite side, which people often miss, for example, Santi Nazaro e Celso - and also the splendid Giardino Giusti, one of the finest gardens in Italy.

And do go to Vicenza, as Brian says. A lovely city.

The other major city in the Veneto (apart from Venice, obviously) is Padua. You can't miss the Giotto frescoes in the Scrovegni chapel. And the basilica of Sant'Antonio is one of the great churches in Italy - worth visiting for the Donatello sculptures alone.

But then I'd also put in a plea for the following cities: Treviso, Montagnana, Asolo, Castelfranco, Cittadella... If you're going to pick just one of these, take Asolo - which also has strong Browning associations and is extremely pictursque. Probably you'll have to move to the Veneto in the end, Allen. Throw away your return ticket.

All of these places can be reached with reasonable ease (and little expense) by public transport.

[Allen Tice]

Thanks, Gregory, a most un-boring reply! I will reread it more than twice in the coming weeks. Asolo. Good thought re Browning relevance. Your answer is full of grist. I like that bus ride idea, but might rent a car. I've driven before in Italy and Greece too (that one's a caution --- but well worth it). As I said, I will reread this carefully.

As to those rich ruins you refer to: They might not have all been there when our poet was active, but there was already a decent start. The famous Catullus Valerius (poet of Lesbia and co) was part of an already successful, widely spread extended trading family. T. P. Wiseman has found representatives in Spain, the Greek islands, and Anatolia who were contemporary with or possibly earlier than Catullus, the teaser of Caesar. See "Catullus and His World" for loads of info, and a sketched reconstruction of the somewhat later Valerii Catulli villa, which is on page 65 of T P Wiseman's contribution, "The Valerii Catulli of Verona" in A Companion to Catullus, edited by Marilyn B. Johnson.) If you and everyone else will forgive me here, I'd like to quote myself briefly. The following is from the last half of the essay I published in The London Magazine, August 2, 2012.

"Catullus was born into a north Italian business family successful enough to have entertained Julius Caesar overnight when he travelled. T. P. Wiseman of the University of Exeter and Christian Settipani of the Sorbonne and Oxford have found that after Catullus died his extended family continued to flourish and grew very wealthy near Verona. Solid evidence exists for direct relatives there up to two hundred years after the poet’s birth, and we know that a single odd ‘Catullus Valerius’ was born in AD 235."

But back to the trip!

[John Whitworth]

Drivig in Italy, mate. Watch the undertakers. I do not mean morticians, though it might come to that, but the drivers who overtake you on the blind side. It's an Italian pastime. Having said that, I envy you. Since my wife cannot fly (in an aeroplane natch) our trips to Italy are a thing of the past. The most beautiful country in the world, and the Italians are nice too. And the food!