[Tim Murphy]

Jim, Poetry is hardly my go-to place. And I don't submit on line to major periodicals. Ever. I send my poems snail mail with SASE, so I don't see whatever conditions you refer to. I also confess that I don't read their three page author's contracts! I just cash the checks.

[Jim Hayes]

Well, for what it's worth, my Famine poem was rejected for 'prior publication' and, I sent it snail mail, SASE, and Eratosphere was the only place it every appeared.

My only other opportunity was 'The Relic' shortly to appear in 'The Chimera. This was rejected for the last 'Humor' issue for the same reason but on that occasion I got a note from Mr Wiman.

You'd think I would have learned something, but I need the help I get here. I envy you your acceptances Timmo, you're welcome to the checks.

What makes me feel somewhat unfortunate is that I am aware of at least four pieces work-shopped here in addition to yours, which were subsequently published in Poetry. One is inclined to question how extensively they search and if they apply this rule equally.

I wonder if The New Yorker has the same policy?

Damn, I just knew that Bob hadn't stopped writing.

[Tim Murphy]

Jim and all. I have written to Fred Sasaki and Christian Wiman, confessing that all my poems accepted by Poetry were workshopped here, and setting out my reasons for their changing their policy. I copied Alex, and we'll see what Fred and Chris have to say. They are editors of Poetry, and they buy ink by the barrel.

I did two Google searches, a pain in the ass, because there are a lot of pages, and I cannot find one poem of mine from Deep End. I did discover somebody denouncing "my white American ass." Of course, it's been a while since I posted. Let us hope that my argument is persuasive, and that all these machinations are unnecessary.

[Jim Hayes]

In so far as your poems are already published Timmo your arguments may well prove persuasive, however, I imagine some of the difficulties editors have, at least covertly, is the attribution of authorship to workshopped poems. They like to think they are dealing with work unadulterated by myriad revisions, the results of suggestions from the poets friends and fellow poets.

I fear the best answer, if not the only one, if the ruling is to be circumvented, is the follow the search constraints being put in place by Alex.

Care should also be taken to quarantine the old Bake-off and Deck-the-Hall threads though, as well indeed as Drills and Amusements.

As a point of interest, my 'Famine' poem doesn't show up now, but I paired it with my 'Fishing' poem which does, in Deck the Halls' as will any of yours show up if you Google; 'name of poem Tim Murphy'

[Tim Murphy]

Jamie, two of the poems are accepted but unpublished, so I have skin in the game, as they say.

[Golias]

Not to fully reopen this topic, but I have written to several reputable journals whose published submission guidelines are unclear or silent as to whether they regard appearance in an online workshop as prior publication. I just had a response from Lee Sharkey of the Beloit Poetry Journal in which she writes:

What an interesting problem—we’ve never encountered it before, though now that I’ve investigated Eratosphere and The Gazebo I’m sure it will come up again.
After some conversation among the editors, we’ve agreed that posting on an online poetry workshop does not constitute publication. Thanks for respecting our guidelines enough to ask

So maybe some of us will now send some of our best workshopped poems to the BPJ. I certainly think I shall.

G/W

[A. E. Stallings]

BPJ is an excellent journal and very eclectic. Do note that Lee Sharkey is a woman, though!

[Rose Kelleher]

Jim and all. I have written to Fred Sasaki and Christian Wiman, confessing that all my poems accepted by Poetry were workshopped here, and setting out my reasons for their changing their policy.

Wow. Thanks for sticking your neck out like that. I'm impressed. It'll be interesting to hear what they say.

[Michael Cantor]

Tim - What Rose said. Thanks for putting it on the line. The response will be interesting.

Golias - why ask for trouble? As far as anybody knows, only Poetry makes a fuss about workshopping. I suspect there's a "Dont ask, don't tell" attitude on the part of many. But if you go around calling it to Editors' attention - pushing it in their face - some may be as reasonable as BPJ, and others may not. Please don't create problems where none exist.

[peter richards]

Personally, I boycott them all. Ha! So now they're sorry.
Oh.