[VictoriaGaile]

Tom,

I had no trouble with most of the lines that bother you, nor did I perceive ambiguity or muddle in most of the places that you did. The one line that would probably draw heavy workshop crit is the "Something is filling them, something", since it is both vague and repetitive: but in this poem, it works for me quite well.

If I understand correctly, it seems to me that your primary objection comes down to the use of particle-heavy syntax to produce cadence.

This is an interesting point, since presumably it would be stronger, denser writing if there were fewer particles using up the real estate. It also takes more skill to produce cadence by manipulating substantive words instead of particles.

If I strip out all the particles, pronouns, and helper verbs, this is what happens:

Men forty
learn close softly
doors rooms
coming back

rest stair landing
feel moving
deck ship
swell gentle

deep mirrors
rediscover
face boy practices tying
father's tie secret

face father
warm mystery lather
fathers sons
something filling something

twilight sound
crickets immense
filling woods foot slope
mortgaged houses


which is a pretty drastic compression.

I don't agree that this kind of cadencing is always mediocre poetry. It is not dense, but I'm not sure that density is a *necessary* criterion for good poetry. (Although it may be a necessary criterion for blow-the-back-of-your-head-off poetry. ) It seems to be a way of controlling the pace, among other things: using lots of particles to spread out the content words slows down the succession of images.

The woods/slope/house succession that you objected to at the end of the poem also seems to be a pacing issue: in my mind's eye, the picture was drawn one element at a time, from the outside in. It was more interesting than something like "Behind the mortgaged house, there is a tree-covered slope."

So I disagree with you, but I've found the discussion quite illuminating.


You said,
In other words, fewer readers read with exact sensuality combined with thought; most read the thoughts mainly, and think the poetry is in the thoughts, the subject matter.

I think that there is room for both sorts of poetry. But I would be interested in your essay.