[Ed Shacklee]

In a comment on the "Reviewing on Amazon" thread, Roger mentioned how much he liked Kindle for prose, but noted that "poetry tends to be formatted incorrectly. So many Kindle books, including Wilbur's latest, leave out stanza breaks and have other grave errors."

However attractive Kindle might be otherwise, this seems like a deal breaker to me. I wonder, is there a fix in the works, or is a better alternative available?

Ed

[Petra Norr]

...or is a better alternative available?

Yes, Ed, there is a better alternative. It has a lot of the same newspapers and magazines you can read on Kindle, and a lot of the same prose and poetry (with no stanza-break problems and other errors). It's called a Library, and the best things about it are that it doesn't cost a cent -- it's for the rich and the poor -- and it's alive.

[Janice D. Soderling]

Gotta love Petra.

[Rick Mullin]

In Ed's defense: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's heard of a library. He is asking whether hand-held electronic technology (which is going to be, like, really big in the future) will improve any time soon.

I love books and libraries,
Rick

[Roger Slater]

I love the library, and I use it quite a bit, but like many people, I also like to buy and own books. I've bought many books over the years, lost many to a fire, misplaced others, failed to get them back after lending them to people, etc. And even the ones I still have are difficult for me to find when I get the urge. With a Kindle, though, I can have all my books in one place, with no risk of losing them to a fire, all of them accessible to me from just about anywhere. When I get on a train, I don't have to decide which two or three books to have with me in my bag, weighing 5 or 6 pounds, but I can have an eight ounce device with thousands of books, including a good number of books that were as free as the library because they are in the public domain. I can search the books by key word, as well, or by my own bookmarks and annotations. It's an entirely pleasant experience to read on a Kindle, in other words, and when they start formatting poetry correctly, it will be that much better. I am confident they will start doing so, since, as I remarked on the other thread, it is merely sloppiness and not technology that prevents them from doing so right now.

[ChrisGeorge]

Hi all

While I am not totally conversant with Kindle technology, I would think that in order to preserve proper lineation and particular formatting, the works should be photographed, which is what I have done sometimes to quote a poem with specific unorthodox format rather than try to emulate the indenting or staggering of the lines.

Chris

[Ed Shacklee]

Originally Posted by Petra Norr

...or is a better alternative available?

Yes, Ed, there is a better alternative. It has a lot of the same newspapers and magazines you can read on Kindle, and a lot of the same prose and poetry (with no stanza-break problems and other errors). It's called a Library, and the best things about it are that it doesn't cost a cent -- it's for the rich and the poor -- and it's alive.

Ouch! A fair hit, though. I don't go to my local library nearly enough, except to forage through the excellent used bookstore in the basement. On the other hand, the most recent examples of metrical poetry they have are the collected works of Auden and Wilbur, both of which I own, and the only poetry journal they carry is Poetry. Maybe other libraries are better off, but most of what they have here is old enough to be available online, not to my taste (Rod McKuen, anyone?), or -- despite the modesty of my personal collection -- on my shelves already.

Is it possible to edit e-books on Kindle to correct formatting errors?

[W.F. Lantry]

Originally Posted by Ed Shacklee

I wonder, is there a fix in the works, or is a better alternative available?

Ed,

I have seen this problem, although not often. I did, though, have it with one specific text I bought: Tony Hecht's collected later poems. It wasn't really bad, I could always figure it out, but it was distracting...

Then I found a free program called Calibre http://calibre-ebook.com/

I was using it to convert some files to kindle-friendly format. Figured I may as well open the recalcitrant text in it. So I did, and then resaved it. Worked like a dream. It solved every issue I had with poetry on the kindle.

I've now got an anthology on there it would take an entire bookshelf to hold. Fits in the palm of my hand. And, except for the recently written stuff, it was all perfectly free...

Thanks,

Bill

[Roger Slater]

Bill, I have Calibre, but it never occurred to me that I might be able to use it to fix copyrighted e-books with DRM. Is that what you're saying? Or does it only work on public domain, free stuff?

This only goes to show what kind of a scandal it is that the publishers can't get it right to begin with. If amateurs can simply fix the formatting errors with Kindle, I don't know why the publishers can't manage the same trick, or why they don't vet the product before they release it. They would never release a traditional book with mangled stanza breaks, so what makes them think they can omit to vet the e-books as well?

By the way, for my own personal documents and poetry, I have found that I get the best results by using simple HTML. Use a break code for every line, and a double break for stanzas. Other simple codes, like bold, also translate just fine.

Also, as some of you might not know, with Kindle you can email any word, PDF or HTML document to your own Kindle email account, and within a minute or two the document will magically appear on your Kindle. It's a wonderful feature, since it lets you store, along with all your books, all of your manuscripts and personal papers.

A photographic rendering isn't the best solution, Chris, since it gives you almost no control over the text size. If you use the Kindle format, you can adjust the font size to suit your own taste and eyesight. If you do this for a photo/pdf file, the screen size is ignored and text can flow off the side of the screen unless you shrink the whole page to make it fit.

PS-- I took a trial subscription to the New Yorker on my Kindle, and the poems were laid out perfectly. So it can be done if people care to do it right. By contrast, almost all other poetry I have downloaded has been botched in terms of lay-out, whether it is free or paid for.

[W.F. Lantry]

Originally Posted by Roger Slater

This only goes to show what kind of a scandal it is that the publishers can't get it right to begin with. If amateurs can simply fix the formatting errors with Kindle, I don't know why the publishers can't manage the same trick

Roger,

My meetings with publishers over ebooks revealed a surprising reluctance on their parts. It was as if they saw the future coming, and knew they'd have to jump in, but they weren't happy about it.

One good example: in a contentious meeting over pricing, they insisted on holding the line on textbook pricing. I said "You've been claiming that printing and distribution costs are part of the reason for high textbook prices. This solution drives those costs to near zero, so you should at least give the students some break if they're willing to try this." But there was absolutely no give on their line.

You're quite right: these people were the greatest experts in layout the world has ever seen. If they *wanted* to make things look good, they could have. They must have just not been all that interested. Or they were thinking "It already costs us X to do traditional layout, it'll cost us X plus Y to do e-layout as well..." So they left the 'good enough' bar really low. I have a feeling that will change pretty quickly now, since ebook sales have surpassed dead tree book sales...

I'm not sure most poets would even be able to navigate the options and settings in Calibre, or recognize the terms. But a year from now, they probably won't have to...

Thanks,

Bill