Adlestrop, Edward Thomas, Frost

Jayne Osborn · #1 08-04-2011, 04:59 PM

David,

I'm glad you enjoyed the article. (I didn't know they wrote stuff like that in the 'Grauniad', as I don't buy it, so I was very pleased that Charlotte posted the link.)

Thanks to Amazon's wonderful 'One-click' your book, which includes "Talking to Lord Newborough" is now on its way to my house. I shall be wanting to have it signed, of course!

Charlotte Innes · #2 08-04-2011, 05:50 PM

Hello Jayne again, and hello David! I'm new at this game, so it's lovely to see so much interest around the poem and the place--and the article. So glad you enjoyed it, David. (And I will check out your book!) Thanks for all these comments.
David, I also tried to find the original Adlestrop station, based on directions given to me in the village, but failed miserably! However, the lady in the tea-shop has cards with pictures of the old platform, during Thomas' time, I believe--and the porter pictured there is godfather to one of her relatives. I am very interested in the Thomas biography and will look for it. I always feel saddened by Thomas' death--and his short life as a poet.

David Anthony · #3 08-06-2011, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayne Osborn

David,
Thanks to Amazon's wonderful 'One-click' your book, which includes "Talking to Lord Newborough" is now on its way to my house. I shall be wanting to have it signed, of course!

Thanks, Jayne.
I'll be happy to sign it when next we meet, although I fear the rarity value will be thereby diminished.
I've ordered your book of rhyming verse. I had to get a second-hand one since Amazon are out of new stock.

Tim, thanks for posting my poem.

Best regards,
David

Jayne Osborn · #4 08-06-2011, 12:02 PM

Oh heck, David, I'm really embarrassed about my old book of rhyming verse; I was a novice who's learned a lot since then.
A new (hopefully better) one is shortly becoming available.

Jerome Betts · #5 08-06-2011, 12:35 PM

Jayne, reverting to the 'mistier-Gloucestershire' pairing, the COD gives two pronunciations, 'sher' and 'sheer' for the 'shire' element of such county names. I've only ever (consciously) heard one person use the 'sher' ending and myself pronounce it 'sheer', which I'd assumed was the standard RP version. So, for me, 'mistier' - Gloucestershire' is only an approximate rhyme. I wonder if there any recordings of Thomas's own pronunciation?

Ann Drysdale · #6 08-06-2011, 04:12 PM

Oh - sorry.

My point was in fact rather more tasteless than has been supposed. It's nothing to do with Welsh pronounciation per se; it was referring to the fact that many of the American vistors to the Ebbw Vale Garden Festival pronounced "Cwm" as "Quim", blissfully unaware of its anatomical connotations. I used it in a poem and the comedian Victor Spinetti incorporated it into a stand-up routine. Here in the Valleys, we get our giggles where we can.

Jayne Osborn · #7 08-06-2011, 05:04 PM

Jerome,
Interesting point! You've now got me saying all the county names out loud, to see whether I say 'sher' or 'sheer' at the end of them! I say 'York-sher', yet 'Lanca-sheer' - something I've never consciously thought about till now. Checking off the entire list from Google (can't believe I've gone to these lengths!) I do pronounce most of them 'sheer', with the possible exceptions of 'Wilt-sher' and 'Hamp-sher' - not sure about 'Berk-sher'... the rest of the world is probably reaching for the razor blades by this point

I agree with you that 'mistier'/'Gloucestershire' is only an approximate rhyme, but 'sher' is a tad closer. (The rest of the world: my apologies if you're bored witless by this... only, now I'm starting to wonder about 'Stafford-sher, Stafford-sheer). Blimey, Jerome, I'm not going to be able to sleep tonight with all this going through my head.

Ann,
You're a very naughty girl! I've never heard anyone pronounce 'cwm' as 'quim' (heehee) - but then I've led an extremely sheltered life

Victor Spinetti? Isn't he about 120 years old by now?

Charlotte Innes · #8 08-07-2011, 01:02 PM

Jayne, Jerome... a few more words on the English pronunciation of "-shire!" I just spoke to my 92-year-old Dad. He believes that one says either "sheer" or "sher" (which he made sound more like "shuh.") He's lived in Derbyshire (Dah-bi-sher) and Leicestershire (Lester-sher) for most of his life... If "shuh," that's closer to Thomas' "mistier," isn't it? For my own part, I also wonder if the pronunciation has something to do with class and region... Northerners tend to lengthen syllables, don't they? And I think it IS Lanca-sheer, Jayne! Well, some people might be tearing their hair out at this point, but I find such things fascinating!
(By the way, Jayne, loved "latex" in your metrical poem today!)

Rory Waterman · #9 08-07-2011, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann Drysdale

American vistors to the Ebbw Vale Garden Festival pronounced "Cwm" as "Quim", blissfully unaware of its anatomical connotations.

I spend much of my time in Wales (in fact, I've just returned from a long weekend in Powys, chucking myself into plunge pools and whatnot). A few months ago I stayed in a place called Pumpsaint. Raised a chuckle or seven, so it did. Cilycwm is about five miles away. I know how to pronounce Welsh words for the most part, but that needn't be an impediment to schoolboy (or schoolgirl) mirth. I think pant cudd means hidden dip, doesn't it? Which sounds about right on those narrow, tight country lanes of mid Wales, only it isn't pronounced how it 'should' be.