[Julie Steiner]

I habitually do lots of things that are probably futile.

I pray to a deity that probably does not exist.

I actively participate in a church whose misogyny I will probably not be able to change.

I write letters to the Supreme Leader of Iran, who probably doesn't give the slightest rip what I think of his regime's mistreatment of various prisoners.

I get involved in long arguments here, which probably don't make the slightest (positive) difference in what what people already think.

I keep pushing for a pediatric heart transplant center to get established in my hometown, despite being told that it's impossible, for various reasons.

Oh, wait! Two months ago, that one actually worked out!

Maybe there's hope for some of the other stuff, too.

Ever the optimist,
Julie

[Charlie Southerland]

Hi Max, You might have a better understanding of the Bible than I do. Recently, a theory (an old theory) scientists have revisited, has developed that the universe revolves around Earth. Since I cannot refute that theory by experience, I would say it's as plausible as some of the theories I've heard of. I mean, if it were true, imagine time and space and the ramifications of that discovery. Pretty deep stuff, huh? I don't claim to embrace geocentrism, but I can't say that it isn't true either. There are some mysteries that remain mysteries, except to science fiction writers. God does what He does according to His pleasure. John 3:8 says— that you can hear the sound of the wind, but no one knows where it comes from. Has that mystery been solved yet?

[Julie Steiner]

Originally Posted by Charlie Southerland

God does what He does according to His pleasure. John 3:8 says— that you can hear the sound of the wind, but no one knows where it comes from. Has that mystery been solved yet?

In the passage you paraphrased, Jesus was explaining to Nicodemus--who had just asked, in a very literal way, how a person who has already been born can be born again--that people can be "born of the Spirit":


τὸ πνεῦμα ὅπου θέλει πνεῖ,
The wind/spirit/breath where it wishes blows/breathes

καὶ τὴν φωνὴν αὐτοῦ ἀκούεις,
and the sound of it you [second person singular, i.e. Nicodemus] hear,

ἀλλ’ οὐκ οἶδας πόθεν ἔρχεται
but you [second person singular, i.e. Nicodemus] do not know whence it comes,

καὶ ποῦ ὑπάγει·
and where it goes;

οὕτως ἐστὶν πᾶς ὁ γεγεννημένος ἐκ τοῦ πνεύματος.
thus [i.e., not knowing] is everyone who is [in the state of] having been born of the wind/spirit/breath.


Note that the use of capital letters for names is a new-fangled thing--different forms of letters for majuscule and minuscule uses did not even exist at the time. Also note that the English words "wind" and "spirit" are exactly the same in Greek. So Jesus may not even have been talking about "wind" at all, even metaphorically--he have been talking about the workings of the Holy Spirit the whole time.

Regardless, I don't think that Jesus's telling Nicodemus "you do not know" something meant that it must be past all human understanding, forever.

The Bible is not a science book. That doesn't mean it's not true, it just means that its truths are often metaphorical rather than factual. Those who insist on seeing literal, scientific accuracy in the Bible can, like Nicodemus, completely miss far more important truths in it.

As for wind, I grew up in a little town in the Mojave Desert, which happens to be where quite a bit of it comes from. In hot areas--i.e., areas that absorb a lot of the sun's thermal energy--the air expands, resulting in higher pressure and lower density. As that air gradually loses energy (i.e., cools), its molecules contract, resulting in lower pressure and greater density. Wind is the movement of air from areas of high pressure to areas of low pressure. This is why a falling barometer needle (measuring a decrease in air pressure) usually means it's going to get stormy, if the air attracted to that low pressure area is humid.

I hope this is helpful.

[W.F. Lantry]

San Diego, in my lifetime, was a gardener's paradise. Now there's this:

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...ry.html#page=1

You simply must look for the pictures that show what's become of Squaw Valley...

Thanks,

Bill

[John Whitworth]

Ah Bill, the nymphs are all gone from the Regent Canal. Hazlitt said that in 1820. When I was young the Thames was a stinking industrial sink with no fish in it. Now you can catch them off Chelsea Bridge. Fish I mean, not sinks.

[Roger Slater]

Julie, that's interesting. Must be what Milne had in mind when he wrote one of my favorite poems:

Wind on the Hill
BY A. A. MILNE

No one can tell me,
... Nobody knows,
Where the wind comes from,
... Where the wind goes.

It’s flying from somewhere
... As fast as it can,
I couldn’t keep up with it,
... Not if I ran.

But if I stopped holding
... The string of my kite,
It would blow with the wind
... For a day and a night.

And then when I found it,
... Wherever it blew,
I should know that the wind
... Had been going there too.

So then I could tell them
... Where the wind goes . . .
But where the wind comes from
... Nobody knows.

[Charlie Southerland]

Hi Julie. In fact, the wind in that verse is metaphorical, but it is also declarative in the Greek, which still means that {no man knows} {where the Holy Spirit} comes from. The metaphor attached denotes the wind, which is only what men could make of it, not what it was or where it came from. Hence, the unseen nature of it, and the manifestation of it. Peter, in Acts says; the Holy Spirit came as a sound of a mighty rushing wind and filled the house. In science, it is assumed that wind comes from the Sun which pushes air molecules around like bumper cars. That theory is not a given.

I suppose that would be akin to saying that since the Bible, in general is not literal, but metaphorical, that by extension, Jesus, the belief in Him may be metaphorical too, therefore, one cannot really be saved by anything so concrete as a metaphor. Let's go with that.

And Jesus explains the difference between earthly things and heavenly things. If the previous passage were merely a metaphor, He wouldn't have said what He did beginning in verse nine. Context, Julie, context. The proper reading of it would be— Since God sent the Holy Spirit, He also sends the wind. {and the whirlwind} Job. Jesus was mildly chastising and poking fun at Nicodemus , who was a learned man and knew the scriptures. —You must be born of the water{flesh} and {Spirit}{Holy} to receive eternal life. Some will translate water as baptism there but it ain't so. Nicodemus knew this.There was no baptism (strictly speaking) before John's baptism. I wonder who coined 'the winds of change'? Being born again profoundly means: Spirit born.

The only manifestations of the wind are sound, touch, and whatever the wind picks up and blows to create a picture of it. Otherwise, you can't see it. Just like faith.

People accuse Christians of blind faith. It is no such thing. (No, I'm not talking about Stevie Winwood) Faith comes by hearing, not seeing. It is not random, neither is the wind. It is directed. Divinely so.

Until Darwin, science and the scripture went hand in hand. You don't hear about it these days because it was over a hundred years ago.

The 'science' of global warming is still in its infancy. Progressives feed it, burp it, and promulgate its growth, counting on their authority and the populace's ignorance to make it come to fruition. Else, why would East Anglia lie?

[Julie Steiner]

Originally Posted by Charlie Southerland

Until Darwin, science and the scripture went hand in hand.

Copernicus? Galileo?

[Janice D. Soderling]

Originally Posted by Charlie Southerland

Answer: They expect the U.S. to pay for it, for them, like beggars with their hands out. Same thing with the UN— we pay much of the burden so that all of those poor countries can remain members, stay in nice hotels, eat like kings, and spit in our faces. I am paying for that.

Charlie, I don't want to quarrel with you, but these facts might be interesting.
Member States' Assessed Share of the UN Budget

https://www.globalpolicy.org/un-fina...un-budget.html
There are 193 member states in the United Nations. The scale of assessments reflects a country's capacity to pay (measured by factors such as a country's national income and size of population.

The peacekeeping budget assessments are based on the regular budget rates, but with discounts for poor countries. The five permanent members of the Security Council, who approve all peacekeeping operations, pay extra fees to compensate for those discounts. A "ceiling" rate sets the maximum amount of any member state's assessed share of the regular and peacekeeping budgets. The US is the only member that is affected by those ceilings.

Consequently the US pays less than its share of the world economy. As of December 31, 2010 the US was in arrears to the tune of $736 million or 80% of all member states debt.

*****
That was four years ago. How are things now?

US funding to the UN. http://www.betterworldcampaign.org/i...ds-the-un.html
In recent years, after a lengthy period of accumulating arrears in its UN dues, the U.S. returned to good financial standing at the world body by fully funding its regular and peacekeeping budget assessments and paying off past debts. Unfortunately, the U.S. took a significant step back in Fiscal Year 2014: the omnibus FY'14 appropriations legislation approved this January underfunded our UN peacekeeping dues by more than $350 million and had no funding for the UN mission in Mali (MINUSMA). This could have serious implications for MINUSMA—which is currently working to stabilize territory once held by several radical Islamist groups—as well as numerous other peacekeeping missions that promote critical U.S. interests.

On March 4, 2014, the Obama Administration released its International Affairs budget request for FY'15. We are pleased that the Administration’s request for peacekeeping represents a significant increase over the FY'14 omnibus and helps reduce the amount the U.S. is in arrears to the UN.

**************
So far this year only two security council members have paid their 2015 dues. http://untribune.com/two-15-security...aid-2015-dues/

Feb. 25, 2015 – New Zealand and France are the only two members of the Security Council to have paid their 2015 United Nations dues so far this year.

Permanent members Britain, China, Russia and the United States have still to pay along with nine of the ten non-permanent countries on the Council.

Here you can see what countries have paid their due so far. http://www.un.org/en/ga/contributions/honourroll.shtml

All business people know that it is better to have a customer who buys and pays cash for 1000 dollars a month than to have one who runs up a bill for 10,000 and pays when he feels like it.

Respectfully
Janice

[Michael Cantor]

Janice - Roger - Julie - Bill - Max - etc. - give it up. This isn't a discussion on global warming. It's religion and anecdotes and the Koch brothers versus science, and you're not going to change any minds on this board.