[basil ransome-davies]

Originally Posted by Ann Drysdale

Have Shewee. Will travel.

Now I know what a Shewee is. The things I learn from you, Ann.

[Matt Q]

Nicholas,

I think you over-simplify the safety issue. How safe is a transgender woman in a men's toilet? I'm guessing there's a way longer list of transgender women assaulted by men than women assaulted by transgender women. Interesting study here of 98 transgender people, with 10% reporting having been physically assaulted in a public toilet because they are transgender, with one transexual woman reporting be sexually assaulted whilst using the men's toilet.

Then there are the practicalities. Let's say we adopt your solution. Who's going to police it? Some transgender women have penises, some don't. Will there be an inspector?

Like many things in life, there may not be a simple answer.

Who's to know they're about to transgress
if the plaque on the door shows a dress?
So I've ordered the signer
to design a vagina
it's the only way out of this mess.

[Nicholas Stone]

Hmm. You're probably quite right that there isn't a simple answer. I'd still be instinctively against anything that gives men a legal carte blanche to wander around the women's loos. A special transgender loo? That doesn't sound right either. Some clever person will think of something.

If in doubt,
Someone else will sort it out.
In the meantime there are two loos,
But we don't know who's whose.

[Ann Drysdale]

A Radar key, perhaps? Though this might imply that the transgender individual is to be regarded as "disabled".

However, if these these facilities are regarded as places of privacy where those not able to use communal toilets can deal with whatever sets them apart - wheelchair, prosthesis, sexual identity, stoma - it might solve the problem.

These toilets are "unisex" but designed for the safety and dignity of those with a special need.

But you're right, Nico, it ain't easy. Especially where I live, where all the public toilets have been closed to save money.

[Brian Allgar]

Originally Posted by Nicholas Stone

Call me old fashioned Brian, I don't see the issue about not letting pre-op transgender people use the opposite gender's facilities.

Nicholas, as I understand it, this vile anti-LGBT legislation in North Carolina and other mentally-retarded states isn't just directed, as you suggest, at "pre-op" transgender people. Among many other repugnant acts of discrimination (employers can fire gay workers, etc., etc.) it states that public lavatories must be used by people in accordance with the gender specified on their birth certificates. That, of course, would exclude post-op ex-men who no longer have a wossname.

I'm glad to see that a lot of mayors, companies and entertainers are telling Governor McCrory where to stick it. And in the immortal words of Dad's Army (although you're probably too young to know what I'm talking about), "he won't like it up 'im."

[Brian Allgar]

Annie, like Bazza, I have learnt something from you. Perhaps I should have specified "with no artificial aids".

[Julie Steiner]

Surely there are enough real problems that legislators should be trying to solve. They shouldn't be wasting their time solving hypothetical problems that don't really exist.

But even the hypothetical situation is not helped by this law. What if a trans woman did intend to sexually assault her bathroom-mates? Someone who has no regard for the existing rape laws is not going to be stopped short by a new law about being in the wrong bathroom.

Obviously, these sorts of laws only exist to harass and shame and make life as unpleasant as possible for law-abiding trans people, not to protect society from criminals.

[Julie Steiner]

We have to preach to deviants.
We have to scream, "Repent!"
We have to let them know that hell's
where they'll be sent.

But if our preaching doesn't work,
and sinners fail to fear,
we have to pass the sorts of laws
that bring hell here.

[Brian Allgar]

"Obviously, these sorts of laws only exist to harass and shame and make life as unpleasant as possible for law-abiding trans people, not to protect society from criminals."

Worse than that, Julie. These disgusting laws are being enacted to legalize discrimination of all kinds. How long before shops, lavatories, parks, libraries, and any other public places in North Carolina have signs saying "Whites only, black people offend our religious principles. (HB2 means we're entitled to do this)"?

[Erik Olson]

Dear State Senate
Let men use men’s, and women women’s rooms,
Do not check out our nether parts or wombs—
When someone self-identifies one sex,
It muddles things if then some prick objects;
X-women made to use the women's loo
Grants backward law, its precedent: Screw you!
a